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Location: London, England | Hi SP,
You've no idea how confusing even I find me, so sorry for the language-once you get it, it makes everything clear, so it's worth persisting.
Take care
Nick
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| I've done it I've done it!!! In another mysore session given by another teacher, I asked for help again and she let me do kurmasana on my own while instructing me, then I still couldn't really move my ankles in, so she helped me start by binding my hands (fingers really...) and then she crossed my ankles and voilà! I was in the pose! No pain whatsoever! My fingers slipped a few times and I had to try to grasp them again, but I held it all for a decent amount of time. The difference is that as opposed to the time I did the pose and felt pain, she did not cross my feet on top of my head, but just in front of my crown. I'm sure eventually, the goal is to get them on top, but I'm happy working in a modified version for now.
Then, yesterday, in a led class, I successfully did it on my own, but modified again... I was able to bind my hands fully behind my back, and pull my feet inwards, but not to cross them, so I just put my soles together in front of my head, which the teacher said was fine. And what's more, I almost managed to transition into the vinyasa from there by releasing my hands and pressing them down to get up (my feet separated, however), then moving into tittibhasana, and an almost successful bakasana before flopping down when trying to jump back! So stuff is happening!! I think my core muscles have become much stronger recently... Yippee! sp |
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| Hi SP,
Very impressive. That's an advanced asana.
You'll be on the second series in no time...
Jonathon |
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| Let's not get ahead of ourselves, I still have to manage to squish my freakishly bulky forearms (I've carried around a LOT of heavy plates over the years) through my folded legs for gaba pindasana and kukkutasana... and that in itself might require either a lot of lube or surgery to remove a part of my chunky calves... 
But otherwise, I've practiced all of the other poses in the sequence except for supta konasana, even if only a few times... So I guess the end is near. I don't think I'll want to move on to anything else until I feel ease and comfort in all the primary series postures, and I can adequately do the vinyasas in and out of the poses... Some of those things are tough! I need to build more core strength, methinks.
sp |
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| slowpie6 - 2007-02-09 8:27 PM
Let's not get ahead of ourselves, I still have to manage to squish my freakishly bulky forearms (I've carried around a LOT of heavy plates over the years ) through my folded legs for gaba pindasana and kukkutasana... and that in itself might require either a lot of lube or surgery to remove a part of my chunky calves...
sp
If you are comfortable in full lotus (not forcing the pose and experiencing no stress in the knees), an Ashtanga Top Tip for squeezing the arms through the legs in Garbha Pindasana and Kukkutasana is to make sure your arms are bare and roll up your trouser legs (or wear shorts). Then get your teacher to spray your arms with a fine mist of water. I use those plastic water sprayers you buy in garden centers. You will find that your arms slide through easily.
Be comfortable in this position for a while, before you attempt the rolls...
Jonathon
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| So I went to a mysore class today and was working on my supta kurmasana when the teacher came to assist me... I had already managed to bind my hands and bring my feet in almost touching the soles. After a few moments there and as I tried to relax in the pose, he began to push my shoulders under my knees and then crossed my feet on top of my head as he had done the first time, when it had hurt me. No pain this time, although my head felt a bit unhappy. I'm glad to see that I am no longer feeling any pain, perhaps the first time was a fluke or somehow triggered by simple panic at being in such an awkward position. 
Then came garbha pindasana, and I asked for some guidance in that one. He had earlier assisted the student practicing next to me to get in the pose and had her try and cross into padmasana over her arms rather than push her arms through. In my case, however, he had me push my arms through. It might be thanks to new pants (they're made of a very slick fabric), but my arms went through without excessive struggle. And from there I was able to touch my forehead. I wasn't especially unconfortable, but I would have stayed there for a while heeding your advice Jonnie... However, my teacher then told me to do the rolls. No success there. I tried over and over... one time I just rolled on straight, which suggests that I was rolling on my spine rather than on the side of it as I was told to do. Once, I succeeded in rolling down one side of the spine and up the other, starting the rotation, only to fall on my side on the second roll down. After that, I could only seem to fall onto my side, and lay there helpless and unable to get back up, so my teacher had to pull me up. Eventually, he told me to stop for the day. So I never tried kukkutasana, moved into the finishing sequence instead. I was a little disappointed because I could see the light at the end of the tunnel and thought I might actually be able to complete the first series for the first time. Oh well...
I must say I'm not very satisfied with myself today, I felt a bit out of focus in my practice, I was easily distracted by things happening around me. I also didn't have a consistent flow, kept pausing after my vinyasa before beginning the next asana. And when I tried the more difficult vinyasas out of poses, and didn't succeed, I felt overwhelmed with frustration to the point that I couldn't contain a sort of impatient huff... I guess we all get off days, hopefully I'll be back in the right mind frame tomorrow.
I recognize and accept that these things will take time, years upon years in fact, and that even when you are extremely advanced, you will still be working to improve yourself... Case in point: the mysore session today was being taught by the younger teacher, whose parents are both certified teachers. And his mother was in attendance as a student. And thanks to my lack of concentration and wandering eyes today, I noticed that her son went to adjust her and work with her through various asanas, even though she was practicing ashtanga before he was even born (and up to two days before she gave birth! She's an impressive woman!). So if that's not a clear message that the work will never be done, I don't know what is. I think yoga should prove a very efficient way of developing infinite patience, I'm just not there yet I guess.
sp
Edited by slowpie6 2007-02-09 11:31 AM
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| Hi SP,
Garbha means womb and Pinda means fetus, so this is the fetus in the womb pose. Named because that is how you look in the asana.
After you are in the full pose, tuck your head down into your hands so you can shorten the distance between your pubic bone and your sternum. Most importantly, make sure your spine is completely rounded to aid with the rolling action.
You should exhale as you roll back and inhale as you roll forward and ensure that you roll ALONG the line of your spine and NOT to the side of it (this massages the spine and has theraputic benefits). The turning action actually comes from twisting your buttock muscles slightly to the right so you can roll in a clockwise direction.
It is much easier to practise the movement unbound with simple cross legs. When you have mastered that, practise in full lotus and finally squeeze the arms through again.
Jonathon |
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| Oh, thanks for the modification tips, I will attempt that next time I practice at home and see if I can begin to turn...
I'm confused, however, at the idea of rolling "along the line of the spine" as you say. I was told to roll just to the side of it... by that, I understood literally along the line of the spine, but not on the bony surface directly. More like on the area where the muscles that line the spine connect to the vertebrae, immediately next to the (hold on, let me pull out my "Anatomy of Hatha Yoga" book to find the right word... ) spinous process, but not on it. Perhaps I'm wrong again?
sp |
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| Hi SP,
I was taught to roll on the spine it's self for the theraputic benefits (of course making sure I was on a mat).
I have just checked a few reference books and Sri K. Pattabhi Jois and John Scott agree with me (which is nice) while David Swenson says "roll on the muscles on each side of the spine, rather than the spine itself"
I have a sneaking suspision Nick will agree with David....
Jonathon |
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| Why not be satisfied with a practice? So you're not doing full primary. So what? Do you have some kind of deadline?
I don't mean to sound harsh! But perhaps looking into the other branches now would be a good thing, as getting too caught up in asana isn't really doing yoga anymore.
Why do you practice?
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| Hi DownwardDog, the reason I was dissatisfied with my practice that particular day was not because I hadn't done the full primary, or something like that, but because I was out of focus and distracted, my attention was not turned inward. And perhaps as a result of that, I was getting a feeling of impatience, of having a deadline as you say, when in fact I most definitely do not want to do yoga that way, and agree with you that if I get too caught up in the physical aspect of yoga, I am basically distorting it into something that is NOT yoga anymore, no matter if I achieve a pose properly.
Putting into words why I practice is difficult. I still have a very superficial understanding of the vastness of the experiences I can get out of yoga, especially on the spiritual side. I'm working on deepening my understanding slowly. Yoga gives me a wonderful sense of fulfillment, of health, of well-being. It is helping me foster calmness and patience. I feel more aware and centered. In a purely physical sense, I also feel stronger, more grounded, and I know I am finally working to correct various physical problems I have developped over the years that would only have gotten worse without attention as I get older.
Two key aspects of my personality (that may have become apparent to those of you who have read a fair number of my posts) are that I am perfectionist to the extreme, and I don't do anything halfway. In some senses, these things have served me well, but they have also hindered me in many other ways. Being a perfectionist means that I don't accept sub-par effort from myself, that I always strive to improve and do better, but it also means that I tend to be my worse critic and often make the process towards something unpleasant and grueling in order to achieve a certain measure of "perfection" in the outcome. It also means that I don't enjoy involving myself in something that I don't feel good at, where effort does not seem to yield to progress. The tricky part is learning to let go of the negative aspects of perfectionism while still maintaining its positive aspects (such as being hard working, driven, seeking growth, etc.).
As it pertains to yoga, my personal flaws are particularly difficult to manage... I've come to realize that improvement and growth through yoga practice, as it pertains to asanas at least, often means that you need to do something "halfway" and accept an "imperfect" asana (to be understood as a modified version, not the complete and full expression of the pose - not meaning a misaligned and incorrect posture), and only then can you begin to move forward. In fact, I'd say that yoga is particular in that "perfection" can be achieved every single day if one is centered and aware and properly aligned, regardless of the actual appearance of the pose. If the right muscles are activated, the right feeling is felt, the balance is found, the energies flow freely as does the breath, etc, then you have perfected the pose for whereever your body is that day. Attempting to push further and perfect the pose by some external or objective standard (such as creating a particular shape in the body, or touching the ground in some pose, or whatever) would then be distorting the pose and making it imperfect. This is a lesson I've learnt and continue to learn as I try to apply it to every pose I practice.
I'm sorry if this doesn't make much sense, I feel like I'm having trouble expressing my thoughts into words these days.
sp |
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| It makes perfect sense.
You're very much like I am, I guess it's true that ashtanga attracts type A people 
I realised that one day I would do an asana near enough perfect, and the next, not at all....and then it dawned on me that it was going to be like this for pretty much my whole life!
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| slowpie6 - 2007-02-10 12:14 PM The tricky part is learning to let go of the negative aspects of perfectionism while still maintaining its positive aspects (such as being hard working, driven, seeking growth, etc.). You're a lot like me as well (which is why I keep replying to your posts all the time!). One of the biggest lessons for me in my yoga journey is that letting go doesn't make you sloppy. Really, it doesn't. It's all about balance. Speaking of perfection, my teacher says this: we are all perfect as we are. I believe the key word here is "are". It's not what we DO that's perfect, it's who we ARE that is. We come from a place of perfection, and that cannot be changed. And believe me, my training group is filled with perfectionists like you (and me). You say you don't have much of a relationship with the spiritual side of yoga, and so forgive me for saying this, then it's not really yoga unless you do. I really didn't feel I was complete in my yoga studies until I started attending a weekly sacred text discussion group at my studio over a year ago, though I didn't know I felt "incomplete" until I attended that first class. What does philosophy and self-study have to do with yoga? It's more what yoga is than asana, if you ask me. Interesting how you say you're having a tough time expressing yourself with words lately. I had the same exact thing happen to me as well, and my teacher said it's totally part of the process. So no worries there, SP, you really are on the right track! |
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| DownwardDog - 2007-02-10 8:54 PM I realised that one day I would do an asana near enough perfect, and the next, not at all....and then it dawned on me that it was going to be like this for pretty much my whole life! We are all the same. |
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| Thanks DD and OM, it's nice to know that I'm not alone with this type of hurdle. You know, if I'm to be completely honest, I'm not sure that I would have pursued yoga if I was not already a fair bit flexible at the beginning. Having this flexibility gave me the impression that I was capable of doing the postures fairly well at the start, and that I could become good at this. As I know myself, and I am not the type to get involved in something that I don't feel I can get good at, without this flexibility I'd probably have given up before the other wonderful benefits and the rapid improvement was felt. Knowing that, I have the utmost respect for the students I see that are struggling (in a more obvious and visible way than someone who is flexible) through every posture in a class, and have the persistence and the humility to continue coming and working through it. I think it takes a very strong person to do that. I'm willing to bet that my ego would have prevented me from doing so, especially in a class setting. I'm a fool, what can I say.
OM, I am fully aware that yoga is much broader than simply the physical practice, and that my journey is incomplete without the spiritual or philosophical aspects. I am not closed to that aspect, but have not been a spiritual person in the general sense in my life, though I do philosophize a great deal and I am interested. I simply cannot, at this moment, invest much more time into these things and so I have accepted that part of that journey will have to wait until I am done my graduate degree. At that point, I can afford to read more books, to attend classes or discussion groups, or whatever. My commitment to my "official" studies have to take precedent at the moment, because the deadline is lurking very close by, and I've been working on this for too long to give up now, although I have completely lost my motivation. I was even resistant, until January 3, to take on a more dedicated practice as I was afraid that it would interfere even more with my studies. I finally decided that I was tired of putting my life on hold and that I wasn't working any more diligently on my thesis because I was sitting at home. I also thought that since many asanas are purported to increase mental concentration, and since a regular practice has such a positive effect on energy levels, that it might even help me with completing my thesis as well. So far, I've not really picked up the pace of work so much. But I'm going to make it, only that means holding out of exploring some of the other aspects of yoga that I desperately want to study. It's just a sacrifice I have to make.
sp |
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| I don't think that the spiritual aspect necessarily involves lots of reading and study.
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| DownwardDog - 2007-02-12 6:50 PM
I don't think that the spiritual aspect necessarily involves lots of reading and study.
Exactly, investigate the Yamas and Niyamas of Ashtanga/Raja Yoga, and then do your best to live them in all aspects of your life.
Jonathon |
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| I went to Hamish Hendry's Mysore class yesterday and had a really great time. His adjustments were really good and I feel I learned a lot from going, even if I did have to get up at 4.45am to get there on time!
He told me to do backbends after supta kurmasana and not to go on with the series until I could join my hands together. Can anyone tell me why this should be? I couldn't really ask Hamish as he was too busy with his other students. When I left the shala had really filled up. I had to do my finishing poses in another room.
Ian |
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| ian****er - 2007-02-12 12:44 PM
He told me to do backbends after supta kurmasana and not to go on with the series until I could join my hands together. Can anyone tell me why this should be?
Ian
Hi Ian,
I guessing, but I imagine Hamish is following strict Mysore rules (don't move on until you are able to complete the asana).
For me, supta kurmasana represents the Pinnacle of the primary series and it's all pretty much plain sailing from there
SKPJ often encourages students who are nearly at the end of the primary and almost ready for the intermediate series to begin back bends at the end of their practise (and before the finishing series) to prepare themselves for moving up...
BTW, did you notice that the forum has recognised your surname as offensive
Jonathon |
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| That's hilarious, I think we should quote Ian every chance we get.
Don't feel bad Ian, you're in good company, all the great writers have been editted here, Charles ****ens, Emily ****enson, ..... |
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| Glad that you liked Hamish's!
In Mysore you finish in the toilets - No joke! Finishing in another room is quite common for busy shalas.
In Mysore I was asked to carry on with primary until the end of it and I can't bind properly in Supta K, this posture is usually easier for the long legged amongst us! It probably wasn't just that, maybe he felt that this was good for you right now. It doesn't really matter where you stop anyway.
Hope you go back
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| Hi DownwardDog, I had trouble binding in Supta K and Pashasana until Tim Miller told me, no joke, that I might need to lose a kilogram (after assuring me that at 5'6" 125lb I was "not fat"). Sure enough, I lost about 3lbs and was able to bind in both poses. Was it just practicing, or was it those few pounds? I don't know, but Tim is surely a proponent of "skinny yogis" when it comes to the binding postures. I'm down to 120lbs and can almost bind at the wrist in both of those, though I have been binding at the wrist in the Mari's for at least a year. Just adding my two cents on this difficult pose. |
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| I count this as one of the most unnecessary and overused props in Ashtanga yoga. We all claim to be purists and then whip out the water bottle for Garbha Pindasana. If you have worked up your tapas to this point then you should have ample sweat and not need the spray bottle, otherwise, skin on fabric slips just as easily. You just have to make a tight enough lotus and go in close to your ankles, once you get your hands and wrists through then twist your forearms to get the rest of them through. Of course, I have skinny arms and calves apparently |
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Regular
Posts: 86
Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Being skinny and getting into binds are not mutually exclusive. I am 5'10" and 175 of muscle. I have no problem binding or doing garbha pindasana without watering down. And Pranayama keeps me sweating.
I find that weight training (i.e., resistance/strength training) actually lengthens the muscle over time, especially the pecs and abs, and one may reach around further to get into the binds, etc. Have you not seen the big muscle boys in the MMA doing splits and stuff up against walls? None too skinny THAT lot!
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Kurmasana/Supta Kurmasana
