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 Enlightenment and limb help :DModerators: Moderators Jump to page : 1 2 Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
| Yoga -> Ashtanga Yoga | Message format |
osutuffy |
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I meant to ask this question a few days ago, but got a little side tracked  Time to move on from only learning about asanas and start learning about other limbs. Bear with me, I am not sure how to ask these question and get the information I am asking. Kind of like when a kid looks at an Alphabet for the first time, s/he doesn't know to ask what sound they make, because to him or her they are just meaningless shapes. Also there is alot I am curious about. Yoga journal has this information and I found it quite helpful to get a basic idea. http://yogajournal.com/newtoyoga/158_1.cfm While it says 8 someone else mentioned on another post that we all practice the 6 limbs of yoga someway. Are there 2 that some do not practice? This isn't my main question or need. First I would like some clarification on Svadhyaya: study of the sacred scriptures and of one's self. I would like basic information on the original scriptures used in yoga practice. I don't need every piece of information about them right now. But I would like to know what they are about. Maybe some quotes?!? Again, bear with me I am new and not sure entirely how to phrase that. I guess I would like to know a summary or an exert so I can decide if it is something I want to know more about. I have tried looking into it and I can't narrow down my searches because I don't know what to call what I am looking for. I would also like any books or reading materials that is in depth on the scriptures for if and when I decide to read them. Actually, maybe a link to a book of this nature would help, because that would have a description of the book. Then what is meant by studying oneself. I get the gyst of it, but I would like to know more. A lot more on this topic, like how do you go about the study of oneself? Samtosa: contentment. This is a big issue I have with myself. Some days I am so content with myself that I don't listen to advice of other people because I don't feel I need to change. MY outlook on life is good, I am ok with that.I am content with my physical ability and appearance. But I have many personality flaws that I need to work on. Some days I am lacking contentment to such a degree that I feel like nothing I have, say, or do is good enough. I get overly ambitious and then angry that I can't have all that I want right now or see getting it before I am done in this life. I am not talking about material things. Contentment is one of the things I feel I can't have. Knowledge. Not being able to get my degree. Etc. Having to settle for a job that I don't like, not being able to go places I want to go. Then the last stage is being angry with myself for not being happy with myself. I had a doctor diagnose me as bi-polar. On a good day I see that as a personality quark and that I am ok with it. On a bad day, that label makes me feel like I am crazy and need to be committed. I am not on medication, I don't want to be. I am aware when I am having up and down mood swings that are not healthy. I just need more help controling them. Exercise, running, and yoga asanas help me alot with this. Meditation helps me too. Which brings me to my next request: meditation I have or had many books on meditation. Unfortunately, I never got passed the beginning stage of learning how. So, I meditate and it helps for a while, then it gets monotonous and I stop. I have anxiety attacks, I can control these by staying physically tired and trying to mentally relax. The beginning meditation information I have is very basic. Focus on an object or thought or feeling, and wah lah. End of the meditation road. So any books or information on how to meditate would be great. So far the only one that helps is focusing on an object. Thoughts go crazy. Something I am not real clear on is the yoga asanas a form of physical mediation? Do people meditate while they are moving? My understanding is that (broad description) asanas are an exercise to help meditate later. Like focusing on an object is a step to learn how to meditate. Tapas: heat; spiritual austerities. I have no understanding of what this means. Pranayama. This I get. I understand the different breathing techniques and the why's. I don't know them all, but I am reading about these no problem. One question here though, and I feel silly asking. I have problems breathing through my nose. Apparently it is hereditary and I have narrow nasal passages. I don't get enough air flow through my nose. Not always, but alot of the time I can't exhale enough air through my nose before I have to open my mouth and let the air out and inhale. I can't get enough air in to fill my lungs this way either. And almost all of the time I can't inhale and exhale through my nose, I can only do one or the other or my nose gets clogged. I am cursed, my nose gets runny alot. Pratyahara. This is something else that I am trying to understand. I almost understand what this is, but as soon as I try to develope the thought it alludes me. I need a better understanding of what this is and how someone tries to or does achieve this. Dharana. The definition of this in yoga journal helps me understand some of the previous questions a little. I think that everytime I come across information on the above limbs of yoga that I start thinking of them as completely seperate intities instead of parts of a whole. Is that how each limb works? Are we supposed to focus on one limb before we move onto the next? Dhyana. Light bulb going off. While I am sure some of you are saying now she's got it, I am sure that I confused some of you. I am starting to see the limbs as steps of meditation. I'm not going to go back and edit this. One, maybe reading it will help you understand my thought process or make you think I am nuts. I see now that in order for me to learn how to meditate I need to understand these limbs better and how to practice them. MAybe someone will understand what my head is thinking. I don't understand what's going on in here. Samadhi: this is the one that I think that troubles me the most. I have read different descriptions of what this means. I have read articles on Christians and yoga and it seems that many of them interpret this differently. Some say that it means to become God, to be God-like, to join physically with God, to allow the love of God to fill us, to go up and be with God, then there's my favorite to empty ourselves in attempts of contacting God but allowing demons inside. Then there's the definitions I have read that remove all forms of religion and divinity from it. Well, actually that the divinity is nature. And it means to become one with nature. Or another favorite, to leave the body and go off into the universe leaving this world behind forever (I actually read where someone described that the yogi leaves behind an empty shell and can cause them to appear to be in a coma, that upon leaving their body they can not figure out how to get back in). Then the one where it means to discover the meaning of life. Yes, I know some of these definitions are negative, it's just what I've come across and I want to know a better definition. So as I posted this question I started understanding some of it as I went along, you may see where some understanding set in. Sorry if this was long. I thought about breaking each question down, but then thought maybe if I posted it all together that readers would know where I am coming from and where I am missing the mark. Please keep in mind that I am still new and my yoga vocabulary leaves much to be desired, I am working on that. I know that my questions are just brushing the surface still and I intend to dig deeper as I start to understand things. I am just getting my toes wet so to speak. I thought about posting this in beginners or philosophy, but I wanted the answers more from an Ashtanga point of view, as I said someone mentioned there only being 6 limbs and I know Ashtanga is 8. Sorry too for using yoga journal as a reference, I know some of you may have cringed. But it was the first place where I read about limbs and branches and understood it at all. Based on some earlier reading I thought limbs were things you did WHILE practicing asanas. Like the breathing. I also misunderstood branches and thought that it was the same thing as types of yoga ie Ashtanga, Power, Iyengar. | |||
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| Nick |
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    Location: London, England | Hi Tiffany, Phew, talk about a six million dollar post! I won't go into the philosophy behind each book, but I've read several translations of each of the following: Hatha Yoga Pradipaka Yoga sutras of Patanjali Bhagavad Gita I think it's good to go through several translations until you find one that appeals to you most, and therefore explains itself better. Spend a few years going through as many texts as you can. There may be loads on-line to save money, but I doubt it. I now try to use my yoga practice as a philosophy for life too-if my practice is good, then my outlook on life and my relationships with other people and myself changes for the better. But I am quite a physical person, to say the least, and I guess everyone has to burrow to find the path that suits them best. You said you get panic attacks-one of the major causes of panic attacks is hyperventilation. The best book in the world on this is 'Multidisplinary approaches to breathing pattern disorders' by Leon Chaitow. He is a world renowned Osteopath. The book goes into some detail, but is good for the inquisitive layperson, such as yourself. I cannot begin to describe how much the book changed the way I teach for the better (I hope). I think there is a risk that yoga practice actually locks hyper-ventilators into a pattern of hyper-ventilation-if hyper-ventilation is unconscious modified breathing, and yoga practice involves conscious modified breathing, you will see that there is a danger of getting the breathing wrong. The pH balance of the body is vital, and breathing modifies the acidity of the body by blowing out carbon dioxide. You can quickly see the effects of too much carbon dioxide in the bloodstream by holding your breath. The distress that you feel is a result of acidity nerve receptors firing as the carbon dioxide builds up-you quickly start to panic in a way which often mimics the symptoms associated with panic attacks. I'm not saying you are doing your yoga wrong, just thought this might be a good tool for you to get to the bottom of what is going on. Take care Nick | ||
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| Cyndi |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 5098  Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | |||
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| tourist |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 8442  | Hi Tiffany - I think for present you might want to spend a lot of time on the first limbs - yama, niyama, asana, pranayama. The rest becomes clearer over time and, as you have found, the more you look at the limbs and apply them to your life, the rest get clearer. Your paragraph on santosha is very much like some of the papers I had to write in teacher training. For someone who likes to approach things analytically, you might want to take each yama and niyama and write a page or so about them in the same way. I would also suggest finding several translations (I am sure there are tons online now) of them and compare them. It is interesting how different scholars interpret them. For example, tapas means both fire and restraint. Different people put different emphasis on how that applies to yoga. Some Indian yogis practice extreme physical acts as tapas, but for many of us in the west, using the aspect of restraint - say, holding back from answering a post here too quickly and/or in an angry way - is our tapas. One of the best introductions to yoga philosophy is the Introduction to Light on Yoga. If you don't have that yet, you should find a copy. Actually, I think the beginners online YJ is a great place to start as well. But most of those things leave people like you (and me!) with a lot more questions than we started with. Yoga is like that  | ||
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| osutuffy |
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tourist - 2007-02-19 10:09 AM Hi Tiffany - I think for present you might want to spend a lot of time on the first limbs - yama, niyama, asana, pranayama. The rest becomes clearer over time and, as you have found, the more you look at the limbs and apply them to your life, the rest get clearer. Your paragraph on santosha is very much like some of the papers I had to write in teacher training. For someone who likes to approach things analytically, you might want to take each yama and niyama and write a page or so about them in the same way. I would also suggest finding several translations (I am sure there are tons online now) of them and compare them. It is interesting how different scholars interpret them. For example, tapas means both fire and restraint. Different people put different emphasis on how that applies to yoga. Some Indian yogis practice extreme physical acts as tapas, but for many of us in the west, using the aspect of restraint - say, holding back from answering a post here too quickly and/or in an angry way - is our tapas. One of the best introductions to yoga philosophy is the Introduction to Light on Yoga. If you don't have that yet, you should find a copy. Actually, I think the beginners online YJ is a great place to start as well. But most of those things leave people like you (and me!) with a lot more questions than we started with. Yoga is like that Thanks for the advice If it wasn't for yoga journal, I wouldn't be aware of the fact that there are things to ask. | |||
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| osutuffy |
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| Nick |
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Location: London, England | |||
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| osutuffy |
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| Nick |
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Location: London, England | Hi Tiffany, Just in case, I haven't met you and observed your breathing, but a lot of people get ujjayi breathing slightly wrong-resulting in the sound being made by the air passing through the nasal passages, rather than in the vocal cords. There is often a slight narrowing of the nasal passages which compounds the problem. In proper ujjayi breathing, you often see the nostrils flare slightly, rather than collapse. Just to demonstrate the brilliance of the book I was recommending, I just opened because something you said rings bells. The page opened on the self-help approach. Here's a synopsis: Factors involved in hyperventilation. 1. Early history. About 80% of hyperventilators give a history of poor bonding with one or both parents. The remainder either have a family history of asthma, bronchitis, emphysema. There is often a history of proneness to fainting in childhood. 2. Personality. Usually perfectionist. Often related to lack of parental bonding. 3. Onset on holday. It is very common for symptoms to start on holiday after a period of stress. Weekends too are a favoured time for symptoms to start. 4.Exacerbation of symptoms at rest. There seems to be a failure of fine-tuning of respiration, so that breathing changes do not follow accurately changes in activity. For example, in the evening, the breathing does not subside from the level appropiate to daytime activity, to hte lower metabolic requirement of watching TV, or trying to go to sleep. A corollary to this is that the commonest situation for developing panic attacks is driving a car (maximum of stimulation with minimum of effort); next commonest are watching TV and going to bed! 5. Muscle pains. These are very common, and most often affect the neck, shoulders and upper back. 6. Climate and weather. Hyperventilation is exacerbated by hot and humid weather-for the obvious reason of the importance of breathing in heat loss. The turbulent weather in the UK in 1987 resulted in the author hospitalizing many of his patients. 7. Low blood sugar. Symptoms often get worse before lunch or in the late afternoon. 8. Crying. Hyperventilators often complain of emotional lability, and are prone to tears. This is due to loss of cortical inhibition due to cerebral hypoxia. 9. Menstruation. Symptoms tend to be worse during the pre-menstrual week and the early days of the period. 10. Occupational hazards. The voice. Singers, actors, and wind instrumentalists are particularly vulnerable. Hyperventilators are usually animated, trying to get too many words on one breath. They must be taught to slow down, use shorter phases, with a small sip of air between small sentences, rather than a large gulp between large sentences. To the above list, I would add yoga students, who also practice modification of breath. 11. Allergy. Eczema, asthma, rhinitis and hay fever. Hyperventilation causes certain blood cells to produce an excess of histamine, a substance which causes allergic reactions. I don't know how many of the above apply to you (apart from the perfectionist and the sleeping bit ), but thought the list might help you discover more about the nature of what is happening. Take care Nick | ||
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| SCThornley |
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osutuffy - 2007-02-19 1:08 AM First I would like some clarification on Svadhyaya: study of the sacred scriptures and of one's self. I would like basic information on the original scriptures used in yoga practice. I don't need every piece of information about them right now. But I would like to know what they are about. Maybe some quotes?!? Again, bear with me I am new and not sure entirely how to phrase that. I guess I would like to know a summary or an exert so I can decide if it is something I want to know more about. I have tried looking into it and I can't narrow down my searches because I don't know what to call what I am looking for. I would also like any books or reading materials that is in depth on the scriptures for if and when I decide to read them. Actually, maybe a link to a book of this nature would help, because that would have a description of the book. Then what is meant by studying oneself. I get the gyst of it, but I would like to know more. A lot more on this topic, like how do you go about the study of oneself? I touch on these two. Sacred Scriptures, in my opinion, include a lot more than just one culture's sacred scriptures. Again, in my opinion, you should be open to the knowledge of all cultures, and not be too hasty to judge one as being more sacred than any other. Reading is fundamental and knowledge is power.  OK, so you can spend the rest of your life reading all of the sacred scriptures of the world so find one that you're comfortable with and start there, but still see where that leads and read more if you wish. I've read everything that came my way, which has included Christianity, Islam, for lack of a better word 'Hindu' texts, Far Eastern texts, and many more and there appears 'TO ME' to be a fundamental underlying principle. If you read them, you may come to your conclusions which would be the best conclusion of all, your very own. Gnothe seauton (Greek): Know thyself.(lat. Nosce te Ipsum) Once you've filled your head with enough stuff you might wonder just for what purpose do I do these things? You might wonder, is this what it's all about? Am I simply a compilation of all that know, and all that I've experienced? Well, that's up to you to decide, but I'd wager a guess that you're a bit more than those 'things'. What are we, who am I, Why am I here? I am that. Just what is that? Study your sacred scriptures and you might get some insight to this, still your mind and you may get a glimpse at that which is what you are, or am. Spend enough time with the mind stilling and focusing of the conciousness and over time with dedication and effortless determination you will be that. Then instead of what you know and what you've done, you will know thyself. Of course you still might not be able to stand on one leg with the other behind your head while in a state of constant bliss. Good Luck. Seek Truth. | |||
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| osutuffy |
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| I don't know how many of the above apply to you (apart from the perfectionist and the sleeping bit ), but thought the list might help you discover more about the nature of what is happening. Take care Nick I understand ujjayi breathing. I have a video that does describe the differences you listed. I can't figure out how to make the noise through my nose. Woah. Lots of those apply. 4 is interesting, I refused to renew my license because I have attacks while driving or thinking about driving. I start to panic about all the different factors that could go wrong that are out of my control while driving. I am not sure how my blood sugar is, I have had spells where I start to feel faint, but by the time I get to the doctor I am fine again, so we can't test what is going on there. I do have shoulder problems. But I feel a change with some of the exercises I do. Not sure about the crying, but probably. I didn't use to PMS but the older I get the worse my mood swings get at this time. I get irrationally angry and I am aware of the fact that I am being irrational but I feel detatched from it. I had some allergies as a kid, but seemed to have outgrown them. It is highly possible that they are still there though. The big one is the perfectionist. The OCD. If I can't do something the specific way I want, I will not do it at all. If it is something I really want, I flip out, so to speak. When I was younger I HAD to clean my room starting at a certain point and work clock wise. Each piece of furniture I came to in that order had to be dusted and straightened before I could move on to the next. If I did not have windex or endust to complete this task I could not move forward. I got in trouble for having a messy room alot. My mom thought it was because I was a slob. It is quite the opposite, I have to have things done in order or I am stuck. I am often late for dinner or plans because I can't leave for more than an hour or two if my house is a mess. The thought of trying to relax knowing that my house is a mess and I won't be able to continue to relax when I get home can make me irritable when I am out. I get sistracted and spend lots of time concentrating on how dirty my house is and ignoring where I am. Thanks for the information, very helpful. | |||
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| osutuffy |
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| SCT: I have read about many religions growing up. I too agree that they all have the same underlying fundamental principles. I don't want to be hasty and judge as you said. That is why I would like some basic information on the scriptures yogis read in history. I am currently reading the Bible. I have attempted it before because I felt it was what I was supposed to do and never got passed Genesis. This is the first time I have attempted to read it because I want to understand the teachings. I understand more about teachings of other religions than I do the one I grew up with. Seeing all the other religions and realizing that they all had alot of the same principles made me want to understand mine better. I have read some of Far Eastern texts, but not alot. I'm looking into them more as I go further into my own religion. If I read something that strikes me I try to find what other religions think on this point. So far whenever I come across something I feel is important, all other religions that I look into agree on it. Some even help me understand it better. You picked the one that is difficult for me. Svadhyaya I need a little more help grasping the know thyself. Is it that I am trying to find out what it means to know myself. Or is it that I am actually getting to know myself as in my purpose in this life? Another odd thing. I can still my mind and not think of anything. I practiced this alot as a kid. My setting has to have no distractions, no sounds, etc, but I can do it. However, I stop breathing. I am not aware that I have stopped but I do become aware of the fact that feeling of holding your breath too long. It kind of jolts me back into what is going on around me. Is this normal? I think when I was very young I started to have that blissful feeling, but then became aware of it and tried to reach for it and it disappeared making me feel I imagined it. I would start to feel so at peace with myself and as if I was letting go, I can't describe the rest because it would disappear before I understood it. I might not be able to stand with my foot behind my head, but I could stand on one foot for a long time. Anyone remember wall sits in gym class? Where you had to put your back against the wall and sit like there was an imaginary chair there? Our teacher used to give us a physical and one of the things we had to do that sit there like that and be timed. I was practicing mediation on a regular basis then, so I was able to tune out what I was feeling physically and just stay there. For our age 2 minutes was perfect and she gave us extra credit for staying longer. I remember asking her after I she informed my that I was passed 2 minutes if there was a limit to how much extra credit she would give me She stopped me at around 4 minutes and I was allowed to get an A for the class and fail the rest of the physical if I wanted. Which is good cause I was a slow runner I always felt like I cheated a little. | |||
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| SCThornley |
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osutuffy - 2007-02-19 5:01 PM You picked the one that is difficult for me. Svadhyaya I need a little more help grasping the know thyself. Is it that I am trying to find out what it means to know myself. Or is it that I am actually getting to know myself as in my purpose in this life? No, know thy Self. I've learned that if you don't keep yourself busy someone else will provide you with purpose. Purpose is not you [or me], it is still stuff. Self is the stuff that all the sacred scriptures tend to touch on, but never quite give it the impression that Renoir would have, could he have. The Self in you is the same as the Self in me, and everyone else, whether you like it or not. 'God', in my opinion, is not some sort of soul manufacturing facility and so the very idea of soul and God is different than the traditional constructs of many theological sacred scriptures [so there must be more to it, IMO]. Maybe, Soul is Self is God? Heck, this is the sort of thing to figure out at a campfire, at night; then write a sacred scripture. I don't do this often, because I don't like to disrespect [and I mean none, so don't take it], but I've never heard it better stated than OM TAT SAT Monotheism and Polytheism and all the other theisms don't quite reside in the Self. Once it has been captured on a page, most of it's essence is gone. You must live it. | |||
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| kulkarnn |
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osutuffy - 2007-02-19 1:08 AM I meant to ask this question a few days ago, but got a little side tracked Time to move on from only learning about asanas and start learning about other limbs. Bear with me, I am not sure how to ask these question and get the information I am asking. Kind of like when a kid looks at an Alphabet for the first time, s/he doesn't know to ask what sound they make, because to him or her they are just meaningless shapes. Also there is alot I am curious about. Yoga journal has this information and I found it quite helpful to get a basic idea. http://yogajournal.com/newtoyoga/158_1.cfm While it says 8 someone else mentioned on another post that we all practice the 6 limbs of yoga someway. Are there 2 that some do not practice? This isn't my main question or need. First I would like some clarification on Svadhyaya: study of the sacred scriptures and of one's self. I would like basic information on the original scriptures used in yoga practice. I don't need every piece of information about them right now. But I would like to know what they are about. Maybe some quotes?!? Again, bear with me I am new and not sure entirely how to phrase that. I guess I would like to know a summary or an exert so I can decide if it is something I want to know more about. I have tried looking into it and I can't narrow down my searches because I don't know what to call what I am looking for. I would also like any books or reading materials that is in depth on the scriptures for if and when I decide to read them. Actually, maybe a link to a book of this nature would help, because that would have a description of the book. Then what is meant by studying oneself. I get the gyst of it, but I would like to know more. A lot more on this topic, like how do you go about the study of oneself? Samtosa: contentment. This is a big issue I have with myself. Some days I am so content with myself that I don't listen to advice of other people because I don't feel I need to change. MY outlook on life is good, I am ok with that.I am content with my physical ability and appearance. But I have many personality flaws that I need to work on. Some days I am lacking contentment to such a degree that I feel like nothing I have, say, or do is good enough. I get overly ambitious and then angry that I can't have all that I want right now or see getting it before I am done in this life. I am not talking about material things. Contentment is one of the things I feel I can't have. Knowledge. Not being able to get my degree. Etc. Having to settle for a job that I don't like, not being able to go places I want to go. Then the last stage is being angry with myself for not being happy with myself. I had a doctor diagnose me as bi-polar. On a good day I see that as a personality quark and that I am ok with it. On a bad day, that label makes me feel like I am crazy and need to be committed. I am not on medication, I don't want to be. I am aware when I am having up and down mood swings that are not healthy. I just need more help controling them. Exercise, running, and yoga asanas help me alot with this. Meditation helps me too. Which brings me to my next request: meditation I have or had many books on meditation. Unfortunately, I never got passed the beginning stage of learning how. So, I meditate and it helps for a while, then it gets monotonous and I stop. I have anxiety attacks, I can control these by staying physically tired and trying to mentally relax. The beginning meditation information I have is very basic. Focus on an object or thought or feeling, and wah lah. End of the meditation road. So any books or information on how to meditate would be great. So far the only one that helps is focusing on an object. Thoughts go crazy. Something I am not real clear on is the yoga asanas a form of physical mediation? Do people meditate while they are moving? My understanding is that (broad description) asanas are an exercise to help meditate later. Like focusing on an object is a step to learn how to meditate. Tapas: heat; spiritual austerities. I have no understanding of what this means. Pranayama. This I get. I understand the different breathing techniques and the why's. I don't know them all, but I am reading about these no problem. One question here though, and I feel silly asking. I have problems breathing through my nose. Apparently it is hereditary and I have narrow nasal passages. I don't get enough air flow through my nose. Not always, but alot of the time I can't exhale enough air through my nose before I have to open my mouth and let the air out and inhale. I can't get enough air in to fill my lungs this way either. And almost all of the time I can't inhale and exhale through my nose, I can only do one or the other or my nose gets clogged. I am cursed, my nose gets runny alot. Pratyahara. This is something else that I am trying to understand. I almost understand what this is, but as soon as I try to develope the thought it alludes me. I need a better understanding of what this is and how someone tries to or does achieve this. Dharana. The definition of this in yoga journal helps me understand some of the previous questions a little. I think that everytime I come across information on the above limbs of yoga that I start thinking of them as completely seperate intities instead of parts of a whole. Is that how each limb works? Are we supposed to focus on one limb before we move onto the next? Dhyana. Light bulb going off. While I am sure some of you are saying now she's got it, I am sure that I confused some of you. I am starting to see the limbs as steps of meditation. I'm not going to go back and edit this. One, maybe reading it will help you understand my thought process or make you think I am nuts. I see now that in order for me to learn how to meditate I need to understand these limbs better and how to practice them. MAybe someone will understand what my head is thinking. I don't understand what's going on in here. Samadhi: this is the one that I think that troubles me the most. I have read different descriptions of what this means. I have read articles on Christians and yoga and it seems that many of them interpret this differently. Some say that it means to become God, to be God-like, to join physically with God, to allow the love of God to fill us, to go up and be with God, then there's my favorite to empty ourselves in attempts of contacting God but allowing demons inside. Then there's the definitions I have read that remove all forms of religion and divinity from it. Well, actually that the divinity is nature. And it means to become one with nature. Or another favorite, to leave the body and go off into the universe leaving this world behind forever (I actually read where someone described that the yogi leaves behind an empty shell and can cause them to appear to be in a coma, that upon leaving their body they can not figure out how to get back in). Then the one where it means to discover the meaning of life. Yes, I know some of these definitions are negative, it's just what I've come across and I want to know a better definition. So as I posted this question I started understanding some of it as I went along, you may see where some understanding set in. Sorry if this was long. I thought about breaking each question down, but then thought maybe if I posted it all together that readers would know where I am coming from and where I am missing the mark. Please keep in mind that I am still new and my yoga vocabulary leaves much to be desired, I am working on that. I know that my questions are just brushing the surface still and I intend to dig deeper as I start to understand things. I am just getting my toes wet so to speak. I thought about posting this in beginners or philosophy, but I wanted the answers more from an Ashtanga point of view, as I said someone mentioned there only being 6 limbs and I know Ashtanga is 8. Sorry too for using yoga journal as a reference, I know some of you may have cringed. But it was the first place where I read about limbs and branches and understood it at all. Based on some earlier reading I thought limbs were things you did WHILE practicing asanas. Like the breathing. I also misunderstood branches and thought that it was the same thing as types of yoga ie Ashtanga, Power, Iyengar. Well, you are asking a lot. You need to attend a Philosophy course. For now, I recommend you the following: - Yoga Sutras of Patanjali - Swami Sachidananda , Yogaville.org - certains books by Swami Shivananda (by himself, not companion guide, etc.) - And, Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda (this is the best of this list, if you are a very acute reader and persistent student. If you are not, I do not recommend this.) - Guide to Spiritual Life - Neel Kulkarni, authenticyoga.org - course on Yoga Sutras of Patanjali - by Neel Kulkarni , best in person or on 16 DVDs which are recordings of the recent course. authenticyoga.org | |||
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| Cyndi |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 5098 Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Welcome back Neelbai, I missed you, | ||
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| osutuffy |
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tourist - 2007-02-19 10:09 AM Hi Tiffany - I think for present you might want to spend a lot of time on the first limbs - yama, niyama, asana, pranayama. The rest becomes clearer over time and, as you have found, the more you look at the limbs and apply them to your life, the rest get clearer. Your paragraph on santosha is very much like some of the papers I had to write in teacher training. For someone who likes to approach things analytically, you might want to take each yama and niyama and write a page or so about them in the same way. I would also suggest finding several translations (I am sure there are tons online now) of them and compare them. It is interesting how different scholars interpret them. I re-read your post and realized I missed what you meant on part of this. Where you suggesting I get different interpretations for the yamas and niyamas? And did you mean that I should take each of the yamas and niyamas and put down what I need to work on and what I do well like I did for samtosha? That makes sense. I think I miss somethings in translation  I've started trying to use Sanskrit words in my post when referring to things to help me remember what they mean so that when I get replies that have them in them I know what they are without having to google them | |||
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| kulkarnn |
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Cyndi - 2007-02-19 6:42 PM Welcome back Neelbai, I missed you, Hi CB. Shall visit you as soon as snow melts away. I was in 40 degrees higher temps than VA. | |||
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| Nick |
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Location: London, England | |||
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| osutuffy |
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| Yeah, I only do that when I am doing yoga breathing. I can't exhale through my nose quick enough or inhale enough air to not have to mouth breath. If I exhale hard it is the equivelant to blowing my nose with out a tissue and exhaling soft doesn't get enough air out. With inhaling I just don't have enough air flow at all. Taking as deep a breath I can doesn't fill my lungs before I have to inhale through my mouth or exhale. If you go swimming and exhale slowly as you swim, you can only go so long until you have to inhale, even if you still have air left to exhale. You'd come out of the water exhale the rest in a burst and then need to take a deep breath. This is how exhaling through my nose feels when I exhale slow enough to not need a tissue. I still have air left in my lungs to get rid of. The same is true of my inhale, it is like I am holding my breath or breathing through a clamped straw. So I can either breathe through my nose during yoga and not fill my lungs all the way and have to take a mouth breath occasionally. Or I can breath in my nose and out my mouth so I don't have to hurry to rid myself of the air and have to gulp. Been looking into ways to stop the runny nose, but nothing works for more than an hour. | |||
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| Nick |
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Location: London, England | osutuffy - 2007-02-21 7:00 PM Yeah, I only do that when I am doing yoga breathing. I can't exhale through my nose quick enough or inhale enough air to not have to mouth breath. If I exhale hard it is the equivelant to blowing my nose with out a tissue and exhaling soft doesn't get enough air out. With inhaling I just don't have enough air flow at all. Taking as deep a breath I can doesn't fill my lungs before I have to inhale through my mouth or exhale. If you go swimming and exhale slowly as you swim, you can only go so long until you have to inhale, even if you still have air left to exhale. You'd come out of the water exhale the rest in a burst and then need to take a deep breath. This is how exhaling through my nose feels when I exhale slow enough to not need a tissue. I still have air left in my lungs to get rid of. The same is true of my inhale, it is like I am holding my breath or breathing through a clamped straw. So I can either breathe through my nose during yoga and not fill my lungs all the way and have to take a mouth breath occasionally. Or I can breath in my nose and out my mouth so I don't have to hurry to rid myself of the air and have to gulp. Been looking into ways to stop the runny nose, but nothing works for more than an hour. Hi Tiffany, The sensations that you are experiencing are also ones that are reported by hyperventilators the world over. I would thoroughly recommend that you take a course of action which addresses the symptoms. I guess you might want to get a medical, to accurately diagnoze the problem. Is there any asthma in your family? The problems you have in breathing sound similiar to asthma, so I think perhaps you want a medical to rule out anything like that. I wouldn't call myself an expert or anything, but I've researched this topic a fair bit-my reasoning is, if you can optimize the breathing of an asthmatic or a hyperventilator, it means you have a very good idea of what constitutes good 'breathing mechanics.' The action or science of breathing is poorly understood in the yoga world-I have never seen a single article or book in twenty years that has addressed breathing mechanics with any depth. Might have to get you to call me and practice your heavy breathing down the phone. Sometimes I pride myself on my subtlety. Mostly not, though Nick | ||
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| SCThornley |
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Nick - 2007-02-20 2:14 PM osutuffy - 2007-02-21 7:00 PM Yeah, I only do that when I am doing yoga breathing. I can't exhale through my nose quick enough or inhale enough air to not have to mouth breath. If I exhale hard it is the equivelant to blowing my nose with out a tissue and exhaling soft doesn't get enough air out. With inhaling I just don't have enough air flow at all. Taking as deep a breath I can doesn't fill my lungs before I have to inhale through my mouth or exhale. If you go swimming and exhale slowly as you swim, you can only go so long until you have to inhale, even if you still have air left to exhale. You'd come out of the water exhale the rest in a burst and then need to take a deep breath. This is how exhaling through my nose feels when I exhale slow enough to not need a tissue. I still have air left in my lungs to get rid of. The same is true of my inhale, it is like I am holding my breath or breathing through a clamped straw. So I can either breathe through my nose during yoga and not fill my lungs all the way and have to take a mouth breath occasionally. Or I can breath in my nose and out my mouth so I don't have to hurry to rid myself of the air and have to gulp. Been looking into ways to stop the runny nose, but nothing works for more than an hour. Hi Tiffany, The sensations that you are experiencing are also ones that are reported by hyperventilators the world over. I would thoroughly recommend that you take a course of action which addresses the symptoms. I guess you might want to get a medical, to accurately diagnoze the problem. Is there any asthma in your family? The problems you have in breathing sound similiar to asthma, so I think perhaps you want a medical to rule out anything like that. I wouldn't call myself an expert or anything, but I've researched this topic a fair bit-my reasoning is, if you can optimize the breathing of an asthmatic or a hyperventilator, it means you have a very good idea of what constitutes good 'breathing mechanics.' The action or science of breathing is poorly understood in the yoga world-I have never seen a single article or book in twenty years that has addressed breathing mechanics with any depth. Might have to get you to call me and practice your heavy breathing down the phone. Sometimes I pride myself on my subtlety. Mostly not, though Nick not detailed enough? http://www.dlshq.org/download/pranayama.htm or is it? Maybe this just hit some notes with me, but Sivananda tends to write in a fashion that I can read and learn. | |||
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| osutuffy |
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Nick - 2007-02-20 2:14 PM Hi Tiffany, The sensations that you are experiencing are also ones that are reported by hyperventilators the world over. I would thoroughly recommend that you take a course of action which addresses the symptoms. I guess you might want to get a medical, to accurately diagnoze the problem. Is there any asthma in your family? The problems you have in breathing sound similiar to asthma, so I think perhaps you want a medical to rule out anything like that. I wouldn't call myself an expert or anything, but I've researched this topic a fair bit-my reasoning is, if you can optimize the breathing of an asthmatic or a hyperventilator, it means you have a very good idea of what constitutes good 'breathing mechanics.' The action or science of breathing is poorly understood in the yoga world-I have never seen a single article or book in twenty years that has addressed breathing mechanics with any depth. Might have to get you to call me and practice your heavy breathing down the phone. Sometimes I pride myself on my subtlety. Mostly not, though Nick I have discussed this with a doctor. When I had my tonsils removed, the doctor told my mother and I then that he can tell I have problems breathing through my nose. He removed the adnoids (sp) and said that may help, but they can grow back. My nephew has same problem and had his removed as well. When my sister took him to the doctor, he said it is hereditary. He also told her she had the same problem although hers is not bad enough to effect her breathing through her nose, but it is what causes her sinuses to be clogged. All three of us have sinus infections alot. Another option is to have our nasal cavities irrigated. This procedure wasn't around when i was a kid. The pros are that it would help reduce nasal infections and help breathing. The cons are that it may not do anything at all and it is not permanent. Could have to have it done again in as little as 6 months may last for a few years. He said that hers and her sons were borderline, that he thought it either wouldn't help, or would not help for very long. I haven't been to him to see what he thinks my odds are, I do not have insurance and the procedure is pricey. I do not have any problem breathing through my mouth. I don't have to gulp unless I have been breathing through my nose. I do try to not breath through my nose for so long that it means when I do take a breath that I have to gulp. At least for when I am doing asanas. Pinch your nose a little, not so much that the sides of your nostrils are not touching but close to touching and inhale through your nose. This is what nasal breathing is like for me all the time. I can blow my nose and it helps a little, but within a couple breaths it is hard to breath again. I can also flush it out with water (or salt water) and this can clear it for about 15 minutes. In both cases it is not optimal breathing conditions but it is better. | |||
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| Nick |
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Location: London, England | |||
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| SCThornley |
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| tourist |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 8442 | |||
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