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Being brutally honest
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ollie
Posted 2007-03-01 11:26 AM (#78972 - in reply to #78971)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest


Bay Guy - 2007-03-01 10:17 AM

< And, many of the instances of blatant rudeness that I run into come from people who have positive behavior at other times -- their rudeness is situational or intermittent.

.. bg



Thank you for saying this!

I know that I'd sure hate to be judged by my worst moments!

But yeah, my serenity goes way down when I try to compare the best in myself to the worst in others, and when I fall into this "hey, I am the only one who is right" or the "hey, if everyone else were just more like me we'd all be better off" mode, I am not in a good emotional place.

Not that I don't spend way too much time there....
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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-03-01 11:56 AM (#78974 - in reply to #78971)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest


Bay Guy - 2007-03-01 11:17 AM

Again, for me, I find I can cope with this by thinking "Oh, there's that negative behavior that poor person has, they must be insecure/unhappy/jealous/etc, I feel sorry him/her." It doesn't always work, as I am human, but it certainly helps most of the time.

We talk about this in class all the time. Picture the scenario of leaving yoga class, blissfully driving out of the parking lot, still hearing the chant of "lokah samastha" in your head, and then you get cut off by some wiseguy who absolutely HAS to merge into traffic ahead of you. Hopefully the afterglow of yoga class is still with you, and you wish that poor soul that he be happy, be peaceful and be free from suffering. But what about when it's not immediately after class? The trick is to carry that attitude of wishing all beings happiness, peace and freedom from suffering at all times, no matter how rude they might have been to you. It's very hard to remember that the undesirable behavior other people exhibit is totally a reflection of who THEY are, and their internal issues, and not about YOU, even though they might very well even tell you that it's about you. Case in point, the so-called friend who's always talking about how happy (or insert any other attribute: thin, wealthy, lucky, etc.) you are, and how she isn't, to the point of resenting you for your happiness. So much wasted energy there! And so yeah, so totally NOT about you.

Simple concept, though really tough to practice. As we chanted in teacher training a couple weeks ago, "om mani padme hum": don't let life's muck drag you down.

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Cyndi
Posted 2007-03-01 12:17 PM (#78975 - in reply to #78954)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest



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zoebird - 2007-03-01 8:53 AM when we are not looking for something specificly, the possibilities are endless--many paths are open to us. but when we focus in on one (when we make a choice, conscious or unconscious), then that becomes our reality. how we make choices is interesting. one of the ways is what we expect to happen based on what happened in the past. i can trace some of my social expectations (expecting people to treat me in certain ways, particularly in the way that you describe as well) all the way back to when i was 7 or 8 years old when the pattern 'started.' my cells expect that pattern, so i color everything in that pattern.

I would like to comment further about Expectations, and ZB, you make an interesting point here.

Whenever I have Expectations, it only leads to disappointment.  Then it triggers this negative dominoe effect that if not seen through clearly, resentments, frustration, and most importantly....ATTACHMENT to the outcome arises.  I have learned in my life that every problem I have ever had was because I had an Expectation that lead to a disappointment because I was Attached to it.  As Yoga aspirants we are suppose to steer our minds clear from this.  We should be able to see this and think it through.  It is our practice.  If we are challenged with these things, then it is because we have not mastered it yet and we are a work in progress.  Another words it all goes back to Yoga is a process and this is part of the terrain.  Like ZB mentions, she traced her expectations back to when she was 7-8 years old.  Think about how long those patterns have been set in place.  Now, we are in our 30's and 40's trying to undo all this and establish new healthy patterns.  Then as we are establishing these patterns and realizing this, we start to see others in the world (other yoga aspirants or people in general) and we wonder, "why hasn't this person evolved" or we want a situation to be conducive to our own because we think we are either going to be comfortable or not alone.  We are social creatures after all and we need community...unfortunately, our world doesn't seem to be cooperating with our thinking.  This is where it takes time and patience.   This is why Ghandi said, "Be the change you want the world to be".  We will never be able to fix the world and the people in it.  We have to start with ourselves and extend that light out to every person we connect with.  Eventually, if you are truly walking your path and truth, you will attract to you the people, the situations for growth, everything you need will appear in your life.  You can't share with others what you don't already have.  The key is letting go and not forming expectations. Which brings me to say that we live in a society where we have everything at our fingertips, in the way of material things, our shelter, food, etc.  When you start a yoga practice, it is like starting over, starting a new life.  We have to re-learn everything and forget most of what we already know.  It's like starting childhood all over again.  It's a re-birth that happens to us when we are adults.  Which is why I love the Hindu culture because it is designed to support children from an early age.  Although, this is changing drastically due to cultural influences. The wisdom is passed down from parents.  We didn't have that luxury, so therefore, our challenge is much greater.



Edited by Cyndi 2007-03-01 12:22 PM
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SCThornley
Posted 2007-03-01 2:14 PM (#78977 - in reply to #78887)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest


Timothy Leary


* If you want to change the way people respond to you, change the way you respond to people.
o Changing My Mind, Among Others (1982)


http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Timothy_Leary

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on,_tune_in,_drop_out




I've always found this highly intellectual thinker very entertaining and extremely insightful to the ways our brains function and how society works.

He was a lot more than an LSD user.

He thought dangerous thoughts and was accomplished enough to be taken seriously.

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mishoga
Posted 2007-03-01 3:00 PM (#78985 - in reply to #78887)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest



Expert Yogi

Posts: 1738
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Location: right where I'm supposed to be
You all have such great wisdom and offer such insight to me. I hope you all know that you are part of my journey and growth.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Sometimes life is tricky, but it's always delightful to be able to just breathe!

Edited by mishoga 2007-03-01 3:01 PM
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YoGanesha
Posted 2007-03-01 3:02 PM (#78986 - in reply to #78887)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest


I haven't had a chance to read all the responses yet, but there' this older lady in my class that is a total snob to me. She seems like a rich bored housewife.  Not that people that are financially fortunate are automatically snobby. She just seems to fit that stereotype, yk?

I myself live in a humble 3 bedroom ranch style home in the sticks of NJ but I drive a nice car and i'm young (in my 30's). I wonder if i'm being judged by her and maybe that's why she doesn't like me. I've never said a word to her, except hello and it really pisses me off someone could be so rude and stuck up, especially when i'm going out of my way to be nice to a total stranger. I Have to keep reminding myself that whatever it is, it's her problem, not mine. It still bothers me and hurts my feelings though
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SCThornley
Posted 2007-03-01 3:17 PM (#78987 - in reply to #78887)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest


I try to smile at people, especially when they're not smiling.

I'm not especially cheerful, that is, not more than anybody else, but if someone doesn't have a smile it doesn't cost me a cent to give them one of mine.
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ollie
Posted 2007-03-01 4:34 PM (#78992 - in reply to #78887)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest


Plus, one doesn't know what is going on with someone else's life, nor what their facial expressions mean.

People who know me know that when I look angry, I am probably thinking about something (e. g., a math problem).
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SCThornley
Posted 2007-03-01 4:37 PM (#78995 - in reply to #78887)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest


Cool!

Care to recite the Proof of the irrationality of the square root of 2?
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ollie
Posted 2007-03-01 5:51 PM (#79003 - in reply to #78995)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest


SCThornley - 2007-03-01 3:37 PM

Cool!

Care to recite the Proof of the irrationality of the square root of 2?


easy. you must assume that 2 is a prime.

Suppose sqrt(2) = p/q, where p, q are relatively prime integers (e. g., fraction is in lowest terms)

2 = p^2/q^2 which means that p^2 = 2*q^2. That means that p^2 is an even number. But since p^2 is even, p is even (because 2 is prime). so p = 2k which means that
(2k)^2=2*q^2 which means 4k^2 = 2*q^2 which means that 2k^2=q^2. That means that q^2 is even which means that q is even.

So p and q are both even which implies that they have 2 as a common factor. QED.

By the way, the same proof shows that the square root of a prime is always irrational.
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joscmt
Posted 2007-03-01 5:56 PM (#79004 - in reply to #78887)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest


Hey Mish- I have only read through page 2 as I have to get back to work.. but here are a couple of thoughts I had- I think Cyndi was right on with expectations. I'd like to believe that people haven't forgotten basic manners of please and thank you, but they have. And, the area in which you live is a tough one. Not to judge, but I went to college with A LOT of people from up there and there is a certain "snobbish-ness" that comes with that. In fact, you have been the one exception to that rule.
As for the studio- I don't think it would be out of ego- but I can relate to losing yourself in the business side of it. I barely cook anymore. HOWEVER, you could open with a partner (who may not know that much about yoga) and have that person run the business side of it. OR, if you don't want to get into the nastiness that can be a partnership, then you could hire a business manager to run the place.
You may have seen this before- but it was a something Mandela used in a speech.. I forget the original author..but I love it and it's posted over my desk at work:

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure
It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us
We ask ourselves, "who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous?
Actually, who are you not to be?
You are a child of God. Your playing small doesn't serve the world.
There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that
people won't feel insecure around you,
We were born to make manifest the glory of God within us.
It's not just in some of us, it's in all of us
And, as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other
people permission to do the same.
As we are liberated from our own fears, our presence
automatically liberates others.

Have a beautiful day, Mish! And don't worry about those other a-holes. I asked a teacher once about this pretentious attitude prevalent among yogis and he said to ignore them and focus on my own mat. My own breath
Ok, off to work!
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mishoga
Posted 2007-03-01 6:22 PM (#79006 - in reply to #79003)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest



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ollie - 2007-03-01 5:51 PM

SCThornley - 2007-03-01 3:37 PM

Cool!

Care to recite the Proof of the irrationality of the square root of 2?


easy. you must assume that 2 is a prime.

Suppose sqrt(2) = p/q, where p, q are relatively prime integers (e. g., fraction is in lowest terms)

2 = p^2/q^2 which means that p^2 = 2*q^2. That means that p^2 is an even number. But since p^2 is even, p is even (because 2 is prime). so p = 2k which means that
(2k)^2=2*q^2 which means 4k^2 = 2*q^2 which means that 2k^2=q^2. That means that q^2 is even which means that q is even.

So p and q are both even which implies that they have 2 as a common factor. QED.

By the way, the same proof shows that the square root of a prime is always irrational.



Holy Frackoly!!!!
Now give me a pencil and I'll draw you a master piece but math, forgeta bout it!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Joscmt, thanks for the sweet words. you're so right. be mindful with my own practice.

Edited by mishoga 2007-03-01 6:24 PM
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SCThornley
Posted 2007-03-01 6:54 PM (#79007 - in reply to #79003)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest


ollie - 2007-03-01 5:51 PM

SCThornley - 2007-03-01 3:37 PM

Cool!

Care to recite the Proof of the irrationality of the square root of 2?


easy. you must assume that 2 is a prime.

Suppose sqrt(2) = p/q, where p, q are relatively prime integers (e. g., fraction is in lowest terms)

2 = p^2/q^2 which means that p^2 = 2*q^2. That means that p^2 is an even number. But since p^2 is even, p is even (because 2 is prime). so p = 2k which means that
(2k)^2=2*q^2 which means 4k^2 = 2*q^2 which means that 2k^2=q^2. That means that q^2 is even which means that q is even.

So p and q are both even which implies that they have 2 as a common factor. QED.

By the way, the same proof shows that the square root of a prime is always irrational.


So great!!!!

fabulous
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yogabrian
Posted 2007-03-01 7:03 PM (#79008 - in reply to #78887)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest


I was told there would be no math.
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SCThornley
Posted 2007-03-01 7:15 PM (#79009 - in reply to #78887)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest


The proof that square root of 2 is irrational:
Let's suppose v2 were a rational number. Then we can write it v2 = a/b where a, b are whole numbers, b not zero. We additionally make it so that this a/b is simplified to the lowest terms, since that can obviously be done with any fraction.

It follows that 2 = a2/b2, or a2 = 2 * b2. So the square of a is an even number since it is two times something. From this we can know that a itself is also an even number. Why? Because it can't be odd; if a itself was odd, then a * a would be odd too. Odd number times odd number is always odd. Check if you don't believe that!

Okay, if a itself is an even number, then a is 2 times some other whole number, or a = 2k where k is this other number. We don't need to know exactly what k is; it won't matter. Soon is coming the contradiction:

If we substitute a = 2k into the original equation 2 = a2/b2, this is what we get:
2 = (2k)2/b2
2 = 4k2/b2
2*b2 = 4k2
b2 = 2k2.

This means b2 is even, from which follows again that b itself is an even number!!!

WHY is that a contradiction? Because we started the whole process saying that a/b is simplified to the lowest terms, and now it turns out that a and b would both be even. So v2 cannot be rational.


this is another way I learned it,

Math is so cool.
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SCThornley
Posted 2007-03-01 7:19 PM (#79010 - in reply to #78887)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_number#The_square_root_of_2

if only there was the internet when I was learning the fundamentals of higher mathmatics

I sit and wonder sometimes of the all the hours I spent chasing the infinite definition of some number between 1 and 2.

Infinity.

Really big concept.

even between two points there exists an infinity, small or large, no matter what.

Edited by SCThornley 2007-03-01 7:21 PM
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mishoga
Posted 2007-03-01 7:33 PM (#79012 - in reply to #79008)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest



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yogabrian - 2007-03-01 7:03 PM

I was told there would be no math.


Hahahahaha Doh!!!!
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tourist
Posted 2007-03-01 7:39 PM (#79013 - in reply to #79010)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest



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jos - thanks - that is the passage we discussed at the workshop.

re: expectations. Even expecting a "simple thank you" is expecting something. Having someone to say thank you validates your generosity, aknowledges your effort and (frankly) inflates the ego. I try not to worry too much about being thanked and when I am (for example, a student thanked me yesterday for an adjustment I gave last week) I am thrilled and excited. OTOH, in Canada we reply to a thanks with "you're welcome" and when someone does the (nasty US habit ) of saying "uh-huh" I fly into a mental rage. So we work on one thing at a time, yes?

SCT - I don't feel like a particularly cheerful person either, but I apparently smile at people on the street nowadays because I see them smiling back at me
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joscmt
Posted 2007-03-02 12:35 AM (#79023 - in reply to #79003)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest


ollie - 2007-03-01 5:51 PM

SCThornley - 2007-03-01 3:37 PM

Cool!

Care to recite the Proof of the irrationality of the square root of 2?


easy. you must assume that 2 is a prime.

Suppose sqrt(2) = p/q, where p, q are relatively prime integers (e. g., fraction is in lowest terms)

2 = p^2/q^2 which means that p^2 = 2*q^2. That means that p^2 is an even number. But since p^2 is even, p is even (because 2 is prime). so p = 2k which means that
(2k)^2=2*q^2 which means 4k^2 = 2*q^2 which means that 2k^2=q^2. That means that q^2 is even which means that q is even.

So p and q are both even which implies that they have 2 as a common factor. QED.

By the way, the same proof shows that the square root of a prime is always irrational.


MY HEAD IS GOING TO EXPLODE!!! LOL
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joscmt
Posted 2007-03-02 12:37 AM (#79025 - in reply to #79013)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest


tourist - 2007-03-01 7:39 PM
OTOH, in Canada we reply to a thanks with "you're welcome" and when someone does the (nasty US habit ) of saying "uh-huh" I fly into a mental rage. So we work on one thing at a time, yes?



I always say "you're welcome" or "no problemo"..... the uh-huh thing isn't too common in my neck of the woods..
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bstqltmkr
Posted 2007-03-02 7:17 AM (#79040 - in reply to #78887)
Subject: RE: Being brutally honest


Mish, I make most of my own clothes, they cost me very little, but they're custom made and so look expensive. I walk tall and hold my head up. So some people think I'm a snob, I can't worry about it. If they talk to me they'll know the difference but I can't worry about what people who don't know me think. The same goes the other way, I can't imagine their motivations or inner workings, and so I don't try anymore. Unless someone tells me straight out what their story is, and makes sure I understand them, I can't possibly know. All I can really know is myself, and for myself do my best, and so that's all I'm trying to do. For now anyway. Tomorrow I might be a better person and be able to do more, but for today this is what I can do.

Don't worry about the other people, do your best for you, make yourself happy.
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