Nick - 2007-03-07 9:32 AM I think this is helpful in encouraging shoulder extension in the next posture, updog. The other thing that is helpful is hand placement in uttanasana. In the martial arts, they know the value of pronating the forearm just before the moment of a punch's impact-it imparts a massive force. In the sun salute, you should always feels the forearm pronating when you need that extra push-updog, lifting, vinyasa and so forth. The result of the forearm pronating is that the knuckle of the index finger gets pressed into the floor. If you can imagine an unpopular person's face underneath your hands, then that should help you express a bit more force Nick

Hi Nick,

I've been thinking about your words here since I first read them, trying to understand the difference between the actions and movements involved in moving into updog, for the purposes not only in my own practice but also in explaining it when I'm teaching/training. I understand the index finger connection, how that engages the shoulderblade, and so I get the pronation of the forearm. I also understand that the upper arm is, in essence, in outward rotation, so that the eye of the elbow stays facing front and chest and collarbones don't become constricted. My problem, I think, is that I seamlessly switch back and forth in my instructions between describing movements to be done and actions to be experienced, because that's how I personally evaluate what my body is doing, but when communicating it to individuals who don't have a very developed body awareness, my instructions are lost on them. Maybe I should be posting this on the Yoga Teachers forum, because you see that it's the teaching points I have trouble getting across more than anything else. I liked your example of the boxer, that worked perfectly for me, taking into account that I know how the arms are supposed to "look" in updog, so layering in an action over a movement or position is fine for me to understand. But for most people (and especially the beginners who I need to be exceedingly clear for, or else I'll lose them as an audience), I think it's just too subtle. Or at least that's been the experience I've had with all the beginners I've worked with (which is pretty much everyone).

So what am I asking you? Not quite sure. How's this: have you found it difficult in explaining to beginners the difference between actions and movements, or is it just my lack of experience as a teacher coupled with my own ability to know these subtleties intuitively? They say that when you have an injury, you get to understand the mechanics of the injured area of the body much better than the "average" person, especially as you learn to rehab it. OK, so I've been doing my part, got my long list of injuries, so my homework's pretty much up to par there.

Nick -- I have to laugh, because the exercise you described is exactly the one I showed my husband this morning (NOT a yoga person at all), just to see if "the layman" could understand the difference in feeling between internal and external arm rotation, regardless of hand and wrist position. See, that's more my difficulty, knowing what the average person will "get", because my awarenesses aren't average, so I really just don't know what's considered to be commonly understood. Because honestly, when I've tried to teach that arm position to the people I work with, they get what they're supposed to be feeling, from my words and my demonstrations and even these simple sorts of exercises. But when they try to put these principles in action, such as in a very basic sun salute, they collapse onto themselves saying a litany of "I can't"s. It's very frustrating, for everyone involved.

Tourist -- yes, I do know that just making the basic shape of the pose is the primary objective of the "raw" beginner. But when they complain they can't even do that.... maybe my mirrors are all to blame. My work space is designed as a fitness room, with mirrored walls. No matter how much I tell them don't look in the mirror, it's not going to tell you anything, they still do, and then are disappointed that the shapes their bodies are making don't look anything like the ones mine is, or even when I don't demonstrate, they're not what they think they're supposed to look like. And I really don't want to be telling them to close the eyes in something like Warrior I, considering they're almost falling down with the eyes open!

I guess I just have to accept Nick's words that teaching actions rather than movements is really a tough thing, and so I should feel confident in what I know regardless, and just expect an uphill journey there. Thanks, to both of you!

I've learned it that the eyes of the elbows face forward, which is part of the outward spiral of the upper arm. The index finger and thumb pads press into the mat, creating the inner spiral. No locked joints, ever, but straight arms, yes. Now when I turn my arms to have the eyes of the elbows face forward, they are not completely parallel with the top of my mat, but that's just my particular body. But I am doing it "right" since that's the direction I'm moving them toward. Other people, the ones with the funky elbow joints, can turn the elbow complete out, doing that hyperextension thing you're talking about. The joint position comes from bone and muscle itself, rather than at just the joint. Does that make sense? Ugh, it's so frustrating sometimes when I understand something intuitively but don't know if I know the right words to explain it.

You know what would happen if someone did this exercise on me? My wrist would separate from my arm. Nice, eh?

I know, I know, have them pull on the bottom of my forearm, no issues with hypermobility at my elbows, well, at least not as much as with my wrists (ankles too, btw). At least I never have to worry about hyperextension issues!