 |
  |
 |
|
|
|||||||||
|
|||||||||
Site Areas  |
store | | | articles | | | forums | | | studios | | | vacations |
|
yoga | massage | fitness | wellness | meditation |
|
|
For future visits, link to "http://www.YogiSource.com/forums".
Make a new bookmark.
Tell your friends so they can find us and you!
Coming soon ... exciting new changes for our website, now at YogiSource.com.
 Parvritta TrikonasanaModerators: Moderators Jump to page : 1 2 Now viewing page 2 [25 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
| Yoga -> Ashtanga Yoga | Message format |
iandicker |
| ||
| Oh well! how about this one? Edited by iandicker 2007-03-26 3:21 AM (pavritta 7.gif) Attachments ----------------  pavritta 7.gif (28KB - 54 downloads) | |||
| |||
| Nick |
| ||
    Location: London, England | Hi Jenny, I promise, you, it doesn't get any easier-you just read books that are harder to understand. One day it all slots into place. I remember thinking how good it would be to be able to visualize all the stretched muscles, all the active muscles in each posture. Now it's easy, plus I can determine nerve impulse origin and effect, and so on. It comes in really useful and is a very interesting way of looking at posture. Lumbar curve? The spine has three curves. The lumbar lordosis, the thoracic kyphosis, and the cervical lordosis. You can see that the low back and the neck have the same curve. These curves are perfectly normal, but if someone has an excessive curve of the low back, it is termed lordotic. The stooping that is associated with increased thoracic curvature is called kyphotic. If a lumbar spine is lordotic, that would mean that one or more of the spinal segments is in extension-often the vertebra at the top and bottom, L1 and L5, exhibit the most extreme reactions to the curve, and it is these two areas that probably get adjusted the most by chiros, etc. But in pavritta trikonasana, it is loss of lordosis that is the problem. This involves the lw back flexing, which flattens the lordotic curve of the low back. This is particularly worrying in postures like pavritta trikonasana, where the spine is horizontal, so that the load on the low back is great. The spinal stabilizers such as multifidus (very important muscle!) run up the spine-these are being lengthened by flattening the lumbar curve, and are probably relatively inactive. They should be firing with some force to protect the joints of the low back. Otherwise we are learning to leave the spine unprotected during the activities with which we are faced each day. Something else happens when multifidus contracts-the remainder of the core muscles activate in response-effectively, moola bandha, uddiyana bandha, and the diaphragm will alter the action in response to the multifidus. This is why pelvic floor patients can get improvements in pelvic floor function from rehabilitating low back pain, and why low back pain patients sometimes report that their unmentioned incontinence has improved as a result of abdominal muscle training to help improve back pain. But you will see that often the instruction in uddiyana bandha is to hollow the abdomen-this actually flattens the lumbar spine, or tends to, and the core muscles do not react in the correct fashion. So you are faced with having to squeeze them quite hard, otherwise they turn off-or you have to devote too much attention to them, in which case, they become an interference, rather than an aid, as does breathing because of the diaphragm's role in creating intra-abdominal pressure. "Can you explain that like you would explain to a 5 year old...? ;) " Ha, no way  My son's teacher was calling him Dr Finn by six years old. I have early drawings by him of the human skeleton and different muscle groups. I used to find them, could have practically used them in my coursework, they were so good. The diagrams of the nerve tracts of the central nervous system are a bit messy, but then again, they look messy in textbooks, so I didn't beat him too much for that Yes, you have hit hyper-extension on the head. everyone is the potential queen of hyper-extension in the knee-most yoga postures require less effort, and less understanding, if you let your knee hang off its ligaments. So even people with very tight hamstrings fall into this trap eventually. When you think about it, by not allowing the knee to hyperextend, you are probably activating the lower muscle fibres of the hamstrings, so that the knee is basically resisiting hyper-extension-the hamstrings flex the knee. But the hams also extend the hip-in pavritta trikonasana, this means that the lumbar spine will tend to flatten. So by tilting the pelvis, you get the stretch in the hams from the opposite end of the muscle, in effect. Not sure if I'm repeating myself here, do apologize if I am. Nick | ||
| |||
| Nick |
| ||
Location: London, England | ian****er - 2007-03-26 8:12 AM Can't seem to attach files this morning. Will try later. Incidentally I get a strong stretch in my hamstring when I do this pose. Hoping this means I'm doing it right. Ian Hi Ian, Sounds good. As long as you can feel that pelvic tilt-and it shouldn't feel like it stops when you get to the posture-keep the pelvis as an engine which is constantly pusing the lumbar spine towards a better shape. That should keep those hams yelping for mercy Nick | ||
| |||
| Nick |
| ||
Location: London, England | Hi Ian, Right, that does it-I'm going to call my ex and see if she can take some photos of me. If I'm half-naked and oiled up, it's all your fault-I'm sacrificing my chaste body for your blooming spinal twists, I hope you appreciate this. This one is definitely hyper-extending the knee and the spine is flat. I also think that the hand on the floor should be turned towards us, so that when she pulls on her hand, she gets more twist-all the hand is going to do in that position is act as scaffolding, or actually draw her the wrong way when she pulls herself towards it-which I don't think she is doing. Nick man, I'm fussy, sorry, wil definitely get this camera going | ||
| |||
| Isola |
| ||
| |||
| Nick |
| ||
Location: London, England | |||
| |||
| Isola |
| ||
| |||
| iandicker |
| ||
| Had a go at taking a photo. I know I'm in my jeans and socks etc, but I guess the main pose is there. I'll have a proper session tomorrow morning in my briefs (eek!). I know there's a lot wrong, but that's why I suggested this pose in the first place. At least I'm not hyperextending my knees. I did that once and I was out of action for 6 weeks. There's not a lot of yoga you can do if your knees won't bend properly. (Pavritta trikonasana 003.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Pavritta trikonasana 003.jpg (68KB - 50 downloads) | |||
| |||
| iandicker |
| ||
| |||
| OrangeMat |
| ||
| |||
| OrangeMat |
| ||
| Ian, nice pic! No clue as to how to shrink it, though. You should've told me you'd be doing left foot forward, now I have to rewrite my entire response! | |||
| |||
| Isola |
| ||
| Okey. I think I understand. As usual. ;) I'm going to try and catch a spot next to the mirror on practice today, and experiment a little bit. But when I sit here and try to do a revolved triangle in my chair without my co-workers noticing it, I get the feeling that I actually DON'T move my pelvis to the outside, that I really do keep it where it should be. That it, if I understand what y'all talking about.  | |||
| |||
| Nick |
| ||
Location: London, England | |||
| |||
| Nick |
| ||
Location: London, England | hi all, Another training device I use in this and other postures is to place my ankle about where the bottom hand should go, they grab it. Then I put my wrist where the top hand should be, and they grab that. I pull on the top arm by raising my wrist. They pull on me. I always win looking at Ian's phot, you can see that the back is being stretched across his mid-thoracic region. If there was more twist in the spine, it would look like this part of his back is actually pulling the body into the posture. Instead, it actualy looks like this part of his back is pushing the rest of the body away, which kind takes apart correct alignment. The other thing is, try to make it so that the sum of all the actions that you are doing helps to pull on the feet, so that if you were on a skidpan, your feet would slide towards each other. Helps stop knee hyper-extension too Nick | ||
| |||
| iandicker |
| ||
| As promised, some pics of my real practice. Be blunt I can take it (I think). In my defence, it is really tricky to think about your alignment when you only have 12 seconds from pressing the self timer. (Ashtanga March 29th 001.jpg) (Ashtanga March 29th 003.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Ashtanga March 29th 001.jpg (42KB - 44 downloads) Ashtanga March 29th 003.jpg (35KB - 43 downloads) | |||
| |||
| Nick |
| ||
Location: London, England | hi Ian, I can now see from the shot that you have your front heel in line with the back foot-I think the line bisects the back foot at the instep. I would practice with the feet either side of a line-humans weren't designedto move with such a narrow base, and you probably won't get the hip flexion that I was trying to encourage-you are creating anenergy leak around that areathe actions of the trunk do not get transmitted in a good way to the legs, and vice versa. That right shoulder is definitely not happy. See how the arm is vertical, so that the shoulder is internally rotated and elevated. Try externally rotating the shoulder so that the palm of the hand faces the back wall, not by pronating the forearm, but by positioning the arm from its root. Also, I would guess that your foot action isn't good-see how the arch of the back foot is gone. The feet should be acting like you are trying to pull the mat with your toes towards your heel. Because you have toes all across the front of the foot, this will help you realize if you are collapsing the foot, and also tense the plantar muscles on the sole of the foot, which will then pull on the hamstrings, which then pulls on the sit bone, which then pulls the pelvis and hence upper body towards the wall behind your bum-more stretch everywhere, and less of a tendency to have to support yourself on your front hand, so that you can then pull yourself into the twist with greater ease. When you look at it, the spinal twist is halted, and it almost looks like you are untwisting-one of the reasons the top arm is in the position it is in. not bad for 12 seconds though Nick | ||
| |||
| Nick |
| ||
Location: London, England | Hi, looking at the second photo, the action of the back leg will also help to extend the front knee. now, the back leg is obviously externally rotated. You are going to have to re-position those feet to understand all these instructions or for them to prove useful. Try to internally rotate the back hip, so that the kneecap turns to the right-you will feel the insides of the thighs being drawn towards each other-try to feel like you are holding a ball between your thighs-maybe you have one to hand Sorry, couldn't resist it. Now you will be pulling on that front foot with the rest of your body, or at least with the legs and hips. Tyr and get that top arm more vertical as you come into position, so that the right shoulder is above the left, and is not elevated as a result of the arm being in the wrong position. Every time you come into the posture and you have to adjust that top arm, you have missed something important out on the entry into the pose. Come back out and do it again, don't just adjust the arm. You were talking about problems with hyper-extension of the front leg, which I'm presuming is why you haven't extended the knee-but the back leg is hyper-extended-I think that tightened back foot will help sort this out. As the knee hyper-extends, the tibia is pulled back and the femur is pushed forwards, relatively speaking-again, this will mess up the posture-the whole back leg needs to be involved inthe action, and at the moment, the forces created are going all over the place. But you can fix all of this quite quickly I would imagine-I have a feeling, not sure if it's experience or foolishness on my part Nick | ||
| |||
| iandicker |
| ||
| |||
| Nick |
| ||
Location: London, England | Hi Ian, I'll make a deal with you-show me the new, improved, you, and we'll go onto the next pose Nick | ||
| |||
| riftweaver |
| ||
| |||
| iandicker |
| ||
| resized pics. Thanks for the advice (Ashtanga March 29th 001.jpg) (Ashtanga March 29th 003.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Ashtanga March 29th 001.jpg (81KB - 44 downloads) Ashtanga March 29th 003.jpg (85KB - 51 downloads) | |||
| |||
| Jump to page : 1 2 Now viewing page 2 [25 messages per page] |
| Search this forum Printer friendly version E-mail a link to this thread |
| (Delete all cookies set by this site) | |