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| Hello everyone!
My name is Marcello, I am from Brazil and I am currently living in New York City. I am an Instructor of Swasthya, also known as The Ancient Yoga. Has anyone heard about this Yoga? It is very popular in Brazil, Latin America and Europe. SwáSthya Yôga is the name of the systematization of the Ancient Yôga, Pre-Classical and it is based on the very, very antique roots of the tantra and samkhya, called: Dakshinacharatantrika-Nirishwarasamkhya. Its ortodox practices consistis of mudra, puja, mantra (kirtan and japa), pranayama, kriya, asana, yoganidra, and samyama (dharana, dhyana and samadhi). If anyone wishes to know more about this very special kind of yoga, do not hesitate to contact me.
I hope the best for you all.
Love,
Marcello  |
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| For anyone interested, I found this resource in English describing Swasthya Yoga.
http://www.swasthya.co.uk/index.htm
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| Marcello, Who does Mestre DeRose credit as his teacher(s)? Is there a traceable lineage of this 'flavor' of Yoga? Or does DeRose claim Swasthya as his own unique interpretation of ancient Sanskrit works?
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| Interesting Marcello, but from your description it sounds like basic yoga to me....How is swasthya yoga different from classical yoga for instance? I love Kirtan..I get my bongo drums and my friends play their assorted instruments and we go to town. Then afterwards one of us leads the group into a yoga nidra....We slowly and painstakingly relax one body part at a time AND do guided imagery. It's out of this world! |
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| Very Interesting Indeed! Pre Classical? What is pre classical on that site, I could not find much. And, it is for intellectuals? Classical is more for intellectuals than Pre Classical, as far as I know.
It is all weird. But, as long as it benefits people, I do not care.
swaasthya - means a well - being. |
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| Dear grasshopper. Thanks for your reply. I am very glad you've asked that. To start with, Master DeRose has been practcing Yoga since he was a child, really. Formally, he started practcing when he was 12 years old. He is 63 now, so over 50 years of Yoga. He started by himself, he practicied and studied Yoga, Samkhya and Tantra all his life. When he was around 20, he had practiced virtually every kind of Yoga you can imagine and he used to "mix", sort of say, them. He, then, realized that the one that was more powerful to him was what he called ashtanga sadhana - the name Swasthya was an insight - which means, practice divided in eight parts, or angas. It consists of mudra (shiva mudra - to get on the state of introspection, pronan mudra) then puja (that is the most important part of the practice, because it is here that you are going to identify yourself with your instructor, your master, the master of your master and Shiva, then Mantra (kirtans for extorversions and japa for the opposite purpose) then pranayama, kriya, asana, yoganidra and samyama. But the thing is that this kind of Yoga was not being practiced anywhere. So, when he went to India for the first time - he went for 24 years in a row - he asked many Yoga Masters there that he was practcing this kind of Yoga, and was wondering if it was something that he made up or if existed somewhere else. Their answers blew him away. They said that this Yoga was the Ancient Yoga, so old that was lost even in India. His researches confirmed that he was practicing the Dakshinacharatantrika-Nirishwarasamkhya Yoga, that he systematized intuitevely after having reached the samadhi in his early 20's. Just to answer your last question. He has never ever claimed that he has "invented" or "created" this Yoga, the only thing he did was an organization, a systematization of the Ancient Yoga. That's all, dear grasshopper. I could be forever describing how wonderful it is but by only practicing it is when one knows how powerful it is. Best wishes for you. |
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| Thanks again, grasshoper.
That website is from a friend that is also Instructor of Swasthya Yoga. He is living in London with other 5 instructor and are doing an excellent job. |
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| Hello ShalamOM, hope you are fine. Thank you for your reply. Swasthya is very different from Classical Yoga. Firstly, Swasthya is tantra-samkhya. Classical Yoga is brahmacharya-samkhya. That is more than a huge difference. But to be practical, take Ashtanga Yoga, for instance, it has also 8 parts, right? Not really. Let's see. It consists of: yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, prathyahara, dharana, dhyana, samadhi. I think everyone would agree on that. But the first two, are only theoretical, it is the yogins code of ethics, there are 10 (5 yamas, 5 niyamas, but that is another story). We have 6 left over, right? Not quite. Prathyahara, dharana, dhyana e samadhi for instance are only yoganidra and samyama on the Ancient Yoga. So, we have 8 full, complete angas (parts). Mudra, Puja, Mantra, Pranayama, Kriya, Asana, Yoganidra and Samyama. And we still do Shiva Nataraja Nyasa, Sat Chakras, etc. If you call that a basic Yoga, it is fine. But I would give you everything if you show me an "advanced" Yoga that has at least half of our techniques. Want see Swasthya Yoga in action? Go to YouTube.com and wirte swasthya yoga. You will se some amazing Yoga coreographies that us instructors do. Have fun! Kind regards |
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| Thank you for your reply, Kulkamn. I agree with you. It is weird, indeed. But only at first sight. When you start studying and practicing it, everything gets clarified as your self awaraness increases, isn't that what we all seeking, after all? We do not really use Pre-Classic, for a number of reasons, one of them is because people gets confused with this term. It is aimed for young people, dynamic and very intelectual. You are right when you said that if as long as it benefits people, it is fine. The world would be a much better place if everyone only did nice things to each other. Regards. |
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| Dear Marcello:
I admire your dedication and trust in your practice. But, let me tell you some things:
- If DeRose went to India to realize that what he was automatically doing was Ancient Yoga in India, then
a) It is not completely lost, at least in India. b) An ancient thing can become a modern thing suddenly. ??? b) Pictures on the website would not match with the ancient pictures anywhere seen in India. c) Ancient Yogis never went to spread their yoga. ETC.
- The division of Ashtanga in Patanjali comes from PreClassical times. And, it has been tested by millions over a few thousand years. All of them can not be missing elements which are in the Swasthya.
- Swasthya does NOT mean eight. It means well - being.
And, that is why all this is weird. But, I accept that certain part of society can benefit from doing something good rather than doing non-good. Same is the story with Transcedental Meditation. |
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| I watched some of the youtube clips. The performers are highly skilled. I liken it to a cirque de soleil performance; Very theatrical. What struck me most was how frequently the drishti was focused on the audience during the performance. It's as if the performer is attempting to seduce the audience. The whole thing is very Brazilian in this sense.
Check it out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ihw3lmLY6o
Here is a youtube clip of a young DeRose himself demonstrating asana. Very impressive, and considerably less theatrical. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQhR-_u5Omg
Neel, thank you for commenting on these claims. Can you translate Dakshinacharatantrika-Nirishwarasamkhya? |
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| Hi Marcello,
Welcome to the forum.
I watched the Youtube clip of your teacher, and his physical practise is very impressive.
SwáSthya Yoga certainly seems an interesting system, though my main observation from viewing your site is that if it is 'pre-classical' it would not contain any standing poses as they are a (relatively) new addition to Yoga.
Jonathon |
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| Thanks for your reply, Jonie. Well, he is not really my teacher. He is just a Swasthya insttuctor just like me. Well, the Ancient Yoga has all kind of asanas (including standing ones), head stands, etc. Thank you for watching the videos. Take care! |
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| Thank you grasshopper. I am very impressed with your observation skills. It is amazing how well you captured the essence of a Swasthya coreography. You see, one of the main "aspects" of Shiva, was the Nataraja one, which means, "king of the dancers". That is why we present the coreographies like if it was a smooth dance, you must stay on each asana for one second only, so it is very smoothing. Each Swasthya practitioner has his own sequence of asanas (coreography). Even a class for beginner follows this rule, but we keep on the asanas much longer than one second and we do not repeat them, another rule of our method. About the name of our roots. It is a bit trick for me to translate into english, but I will try. Dakshinacharatantrika means that it is the oldest kind of tantra, the white one, or the r"ight hand" one. Tantra, you might have heard a lot of things about it, 99,99% is only guess. Tantra is just a behavior philosophy that is fundamented on kindness, sensibility and love. The tantra sex is something that very few people have really experienced in its truly essence. Nirishwarasamkhya. Samkhya is a theoretical philosophy, which is believed of having influenced the greeks, the romans and egyptians. Nirishwara menas literally, without "God", meaning that they used to worship the nature and not an entity. It is quite complicated to explain it in a few words but I hope you got the general meanings. Shivananda once said, if you have acquired good knowledge of Tantra, Samkhya and Yoga, there is nothing else in life to be achieved. Kind regards. |
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| Thanks, Kulkarnn. I apologize. I think I did not make myself clear. But let's go clarify this at once. SwáSthya, in Sanskrit, the dead language of India, means self-dependence (swa = your own). Also, embedded in its meaning is health, sound state, comfort and satisfaction. In Hindi, the most widely spoken language of India, it merely means health. In this case, using the Hindi accent, it is pronounced “suasti.” Do not permit less informed individuals to confuse SwáSthya, Sanskrit, the ancient method, with SwáSthya (“suasti”), Hindi, because it would result in an equivocal interpretation with a therapeutic connotation. In reference to this, consult the Sanskrit-English Dictionary by Sir Monier-Williams, which is considered to be the most respected Sanskrit dictionary. What means eight is ashta, and ashtanga sadhana, means practice divided into eight parts.
The Ancient Yoga could not be lost, dear Kulkarnm, what I meant by "lost" is because no one was practcing it. Over 5,000 years ago there was no way to register any picture of asanas. The oldest drawings of Yoga asanas are believed to be about 2,500 years old, so it was already Classical and had suffered a deturpation from the original form due to the invasion of the Aryas in India 3,000 years ago and overcomed the dravidas. The division of Ashtanga in Patanjali does not come from Pre-Classical times. Try and read George Feuerstein, Mircea Eliad, Shivananda and other books. There were elements missing on the Classical Yoga, quite a lot, actually. Kind regards. |
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| I watched those coreographies. There are much better ones. I will send the link of a few of them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqPp8Kgwojk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GloCLn_n_RE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkVxa8B8ZH0
Check those out and let me know. Best wishes. |
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| Marcello,
Can you confirm that the person in this video the elder DeRose, creator of SwaSthya, during his younger years?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQhR-_u5Omg
Or could it be his son?
Thanks! |
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| It is his son. Practiced our Method since he was a child too.
I will send you some more explanation of our Method. Hope you enjoy it. It is a few pages long.
WHAT DOES SWÁSTHYA YÔGA HAVE THAT IS SO SPECIAL?
One should try to be the best, but never believe to be the best.
Juan Manuel Fangio
Out of all the existing types of Yôga, there is one, in particular, that is special because it is the most complete. It produces fast and lasting effects like no other. It is the Ancient Yôga today known as SwáSthya Yôga, the systematization of Dakshinacharatántrika-Niríshwarasámkhya Yôga, from the pre-classic period. In order to make it intelligible, it was necessary to systematize it, just as an archaeologist would do with precious fragments that were being found during an excavation.
We have studied many types of Yôga and have gone to India almost every year from 1975 through 1998. We are convinced that the Ancient Yôga is really the finest. The best proof being that we have adopted it, and so have millions of other unique individuals in many different countries. These people are intellectuals, scientists, artists, musicians and writers from diverse continents.
In order to count with such cultured, sensitive and demanding individuals as practitioners, SwáSthya Yôga must have something very special. But what is it?
1. Ancient Yôga contains those elements found in all other modalities of Yôga. There is not a single kind of Yôga that is so complete. In a SwáSthya Yôga practice you will be practicing Ásana Yôga, Rája Yôga, Bhakti Yôga, Karma Yôga, Jñána Yôga, Layá Yôga, Mantra Yôga and Tantra Yôga, as well as the constituent elements of the more modern subdivisions, born from these branches, such as Hatha Yôga, Kundaliní Yôga, Kriyá Yôga, Dhyána Yôga, Mahá Yôga, Suddha Rája Yôga, Ashtánga Yôga, Integral Yôga and many others.
But be attentive: although Ancient Yôga (SwáSthya) has, in itself, the constituting elements of all these types of Yôga, it is not formed by combining these branches, but rather, it is based on a much more ancient tradition, one which precedes all of these.
2. SwáSthya Yôga has, as its roots, Sámkhya. Because SwáSthya is extremely technical, dynamic, and does not adopt any mysticism, it pleases people who are dynamic, who are achievers and who are rational and logical.
3. SwáSthya is Tantric. This means that it is a matriarchal, sensorial and non-repressing. Non-repressing means that it does not prohibit anything and contributes to liberation from repression. It guides, but does not repress. Sensorial means that it respects and values the body, its beauty, its health, its senses and its pleasure. Therefore, you have complete liberty. You may eat what you want, do what you want, and above all, there is no prohibition of sex. Nevertheless, there are recommendations on all these aspects and you follow them if you think you should. As you develop your life habits and cultivate more healthy ways, you will receive more advanced techniques from you teacher.
This respect for the freedom of the practitioner has been one of the most captivating characteristics of SwáSthya Yôga because it meets the aspirations of each person and positively responds to the demands of those who are adept to other more restrictive branches but unsatisfied with the repression imposed by such branches.
4. Our way of executing the techniques is different from the forms of modern Yôga. In the past few centuries a poor way of executing the techniques has been created, one that is stinted, one that separates one technique from the other and is repetitive like gymnastics. SwáSthya Yôga, on the other hand, is founded on the most ancient lineage and executes ásanas that are harmoniously synchronized, sprouting one from the other through extremely beautiful passages that permit true choreography of bodily techniques to exist, ones that no other type of Yôga possesses. Every time someone watches one of our videos, the exclamation is constant: Ah! So this is what Yôga is about? But this is absolutely beautiful!
The DeRose Method reintroduced choreography in the 1960’s. In the decades that followed, on different parts of the planet, modalities of execution that were inspired in the Ancient Yôga (SwáSthya Yôga) surfaced. Most of these recognize the irrefutable influence from the DeRose Method. Yet, even if they do not, it is enough to compare the methods in order to see the clear influence that we have had on interpretations that surfaced after our method.
It happens, however, that not understanding our purpose to rescue a concept of Ancient Yôga in all the splendour of its ancient authenticity, those who based themselves on SwáSthya, when elaborating other modalities, ended up creating modern forms that have nothing to do with our purpose. They saw it, but they did not understand it.
5. Finally, SwáSthya is the only Yôga in the world that has general rules, or rather, it is the only one that offers self-dependence to the practitioner. In other kinds of Yôga, the teacher has to explain the execution technique by technique: how to breath, how long to hold, how many times to repeat, where to locate one’s consciousness, etc. If this teacher explains ten exercises, the students will not know how to do an eleventh. Yet, if general rules are utilized, the practitioners have the advantage of not being chained to nor dependant on the teacher. If the practitioners needed to proceed alone, they could continue bettering themselves because, having learned just ten techniques with general rules, the individual would be able to develop another one hundred or a thousand and always continue evolving. The general rules confer autonomy and liberty to the sádhaka. The general rules are a further contribution of the systematization of the Ancient Yôga (SwáSthya Yôga). If you see someone using general rules, you can be certain that they have had some kind of contact with our method, even if they deny it. This declaration will be demonstrated in the next chapter.
Well, this is what SwáSthya Yôga has that makes it so special. If you want to know more, continue. The next chapters have revelations even more instigating than these in store for you.
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| Marcello108 - 2007-03-29 9:46 AM
I watched those coreographies. There are much better ones. I will send the link of a few of them....
I don't know Marcello, but for some reason I find these performances to be the yogasana equivalent of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfy4fvJglQU
It seems a little over the top for me personally. I can accept that it may be natural for some people to express themselves yogically this way, particularly in Brazil. It is very sexy and seductive, as are most things in Brazil.
Granted, these are demonstrations and not personal practices, but the women in the videos appear to me to be reaching out, not reaching in.
Is the DeRose method mostly about performance, or is there a strong element of personal practice that is separate from what the videos illustrate?
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| You see, our method is very complete in all aspects. When we are presenting coreography is a moment where we can show and share everything we have learnt about Yoga. You can not show off a mudra, or a puja, or pranayama, or kriya, or yoganidra or even meditation (dhyana) But you can mix all of this and present in a beatiful form - the coreography. But Swasthya is not about it. It is much more than this. Have you read why it is called the most complete Yoga?
Regards. |
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| Marcello108 - 2007-03-29 10:51 AM
Have you read why it is called the most complete Yoga?
Yes I have, and I am not moved by it. I suspect that many here would take exception to at least parts of your claim.
I think your very own definition of yoga invalidates the need to try to prove which method is the most complete.
Marcello108 - 2007-03-29
Yôga is any strictly practical methodology that leads to samádhi.
You strike me as a DeRose evangelist, which I find most curious.
Aloha.
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| The best method is the one that suits you better, no discussion on that. When we say that Swasthya is the most complete is because it is the one that, indeed, has the most number of techniques inbedded in one hour of practice. The definition of the Yoga wiriten by DeRose does not invalidate anything. There is no need to prove which Yoga is the best, like I said, the best one is an individual choice and no one should interfere on that choice. I am sorry to hear that you are taking me as a DeRose evangelist. Well, I am not. Yoga has nothing to do with religion, as you might know. Sorry, if it seemed that I wanted to convince you of anything, you have your beliefs and you should stick to them. I was just answering your questions. I found curios that you though that of me. Anyway, it was a pleasure talking to you. All the best! |
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| I think most yoga cults are started by charismatic and physically gifted male yogis. When the women are just as good as the men they are called 'show offs' or whatever, but the males are the true 'yogis'. The physically gifted males can do things because they are naturally acrobatic and with hard work they can do incredible things...impressing people and making them think they have superhuman powers. These male yogis try to change yoga a little bit and give it a new name so they can be the next guru...It's a pattern that has probably gone on for thousands of years. The gifted males become megalomaniacs generally and give advice on everything under the sun whilst others 'follow' them and believe the hype. It's all cultic. |
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| Marcello,
I've enjoyed our dialogue and I appreciate your candor in addressing my questions. I used the term evangelist to suggest that you are enthusiastic in your ambition to spread the DeRose method as the "most complete". That is exactly how you have characterized it. Perhaps you are associating negative connotations with the term "evangelist". I didn’t intend it to be offensive.
I'm sure you have experienced many wonderful things through your practice of the DeRose method, and it is natural to want to share that. I don't mean to discount your experience in any way. You should be careful not to discount other methods as you go about professing the wonders of your own however.
I actually don't have very many firm beliefs relating to a "most complete" method. My practice would be best characterized as a hybrid which is continuously evolving. I would describe my asana practice as very fluid and in my mind graceful, although in a different way than SwaSthya. It is very personal to me.
Again, thank you for taking the time to share your experience with me. I hope you were not offended by my choice of words.
Namaste.
Edited by grasshopper 2007-03-29 5:41 PM
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| I noticed that the description was coreography -- a yoga dance. How will this appeal to guys who don't have dancve backgrounds. |
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Swasthya, The Ancient Yoga
