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Parvritta Trikonasana
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TampaEric
Posted 2007-04-09 2:15 PM (#82844)
Subject: Parvritta Trikonasana


As some of you may remember I've been practicing outside lately. Last week, I was in revolved triangle and it was kinda windy outside.

Well, I'm sure most of us have been there. You get you hand on the outside of the foot and lengthen the spine, gaze up, etc.. well just as I was getting my fullest extension and balancing can be tricky.

*in blew the wind!

It almost blew my over sideways. It was so funny. The wind came in just when I was like wow, I'm really lifting and twisting and I'm getting so strong in this posture. Then a little wind gust came blew me right out of it. Was it instant karma?

Eric (who can and does enjoy laughing at himself)
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Hehet
Posted 2007-04-09 2:18 PM (#82847 - in reply to #82844)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana


 
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tourist
Posted 2007-04-09 7:08 PM (#82863 - in reply to #82847)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana



Expert Yogi

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I'm having a rather nice time laughing at you too, Eric
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Hehet
Posted 2007-04-09 7:42 PM (#82865 - in reply to #82844)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana


what i love is that clearly he takes his practice seriously, but not himself overly so

Edited by Hehet 2007-04-09 7:42 PM
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fechter03
Posted 2007-04-10 12:39 AM (#82886 - in reply to #82844)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana


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the thing i always hated about practicing outside is the good timing of the mosquitos that always seemed to find my face when i'm fully engaged in a bakasana, .
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TampaEric
Posted 2007-04-10 8:38 AM (#82900 - in reply to #82844)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana


Yes, yoga can be very humbling for sure...

The insects are a big problem too. You want to believe that you are part of nature and you're going back to the basics: dirt floor, fresh air, natural light, but then after about 2-3 days of insect bites, you bring your insect spray, have to close your eyes cause the sun is shining in your eyes, your yoga mat gets sandy, and the wind blows you out of triangle!

Eric
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tourist
Posted 2007-04-10 11:25 PM (#82977 - in reply to #82900)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana



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Light on Yoga says you must use a space that is free from insects, you silly people!


....and on a similar note - never try to brush away an ant while in headstand...
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Hehet
Posted 2007-04-10 11:42 PM (#82980 - in reply to #82844)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana


re: the ant, why?  Ahimsa? 
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fechter03
Posted 2007-04-11 12:17 AM (#82983 - in reply to #82977)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana


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tourist - 2007-04-10 11:25 PM

Light on Yoga says you must use a space that is free from insects, you silly people!


....and on a similar note - never try to brush away an ant while in headstand...

yeah for some strange reason, some of us didn't anticipate the mosquitos..

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tourist
Posted 2007-04-11 10:18 AM (#83014 - in reply to #82980)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana



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Hehet - so far I need both arms firmly on the ground for headstand. When I go against Nick's admonishment about practicing niralamba sirsasana, I may be able to brush away a bug while standing on my head
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Nick
Posted 2007-04-11 10:35 AM (#83020 - in reply to #83014)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana



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Location: London, England
All the more reason to practice it with the head off the ground-helps you to conform to ahimsa

Nick
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tourist
Posted 2007-04-11 10:49 AM (#83023 - in reply to #83020)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana



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Aha - niralamba sirsasana with head off the ground. Perfect! Then the bugs - at least the crawlers - won't be able to reach me!
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TampaEric
Posted 2007-04-11 10:56 AM (#83024 - in reply to #82844)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana


quit hyjacking my thread.

This thread is about triangle, practing outside, dristhi, insects, ego, and weather patterns!

Not headstands!


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Nick
Posted 2007-04-11 10:59 AM (#83025 - in reply to #83024)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana



20005001002525
Location: London, England
Hi Eric,
Sorry, Glenda started it I think you should show more decorum as an upstanding forum member, Glenda. There you go Eric, she won't do it again I sense more hijacking coming on...

Nick
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iandicker
Posted 2007-04-12 4:53 AM (#83087 - in reply to #83025)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana


Back to the original (my) post, here's my latest pic. I feel I've got a bit better since Nick's advice. Let me know what you think please

Ian
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iandicker
Posted 2007-04-12 7:05 AM (#83099 - in reply to #83025)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana


Here goes again, my latest pic, taken on my new phone. It feels I've improved, but I'd like some comments please.

Iam



(Triangle april 12th.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Triangle april 12th.jpg (88KB - 69 downloads)
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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-04-12 8:00 AM (#83100 - in reply to #83099)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana


Hi Ian,

That right hamstring is really tight for you, isn't it? That's the first sense I got when looking at your picture, the energy of tension called out to me from there, and from your right hip crease as well. I get a feeling of lack of length happening there in that hamstring, right quad as well. With my non-Ashtanga background, I would want to give you a block so you wouldn't have to struggle so hard to get that hand flat to the floor, and make some space in that hip crease. But that's not an option for you Ashtangis, is it? Too bad.

Looking at it again, and mind you I'm looking for areas of tension, not alignment boo-boos, I'm noticing your top (right) shoulder, and wondering if that felt kinda strained as well. Not as much as in the hamstring, but still. Maybe I'm totally off, in trying to read only the energy, but still, I'd be really curious to hear how you FELT while in the pose.

Thanks again for sharing your pics and opening yourself up to public and anonymous scrutiny -- takes a lot of courage, good for you!

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TampaEric
Posted 2007-04-12 9:44 AM (#83111 - in reply to #82844)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana


Hey Ian,

Yes, orangemat is giving you some good advice. (blocks are "allowed" in my class by the way)

You can't really force the right leg into alignment, but try pushing down and forward with the right foot (specifically the ball of the foot) This should help square the right hip. Which might mean that you have to move the left hand on top of your right foot or the inside. It's very important that you build from the ground up, not the other way. But most important is that practice daily.

Once the hips are square, find length in the spine and reach up, revolving the chest.

I'm getting a sense that your upper body is more open than your lower body.
Do your standing poses everyday. -minus full and new moon. Do this for one month and you will see a difference. Don't go beyond your edge unless the body is ready.

Thanks for sharing. If I can figure out how to post a pic, I will.

Eric
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Nick
Posted 2007-04-12 10:11 AM (#83116 - in reply to #83099)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana



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Location: London, England
Hi Ian,
It's hard to tell-in future can you put a black line going down your mat so I can more easily gauge foot position-and you too ? having said that, it looks to me like you cannot improve in the pose unless you alter your foot position. Looks like there needs to be more width between the feet-the heels look they are on that imaginary line-the left heel want to be at least four inches for most people on the other side of the line-this is what I call the 'second foot position.'
I bellieve this will improve the available position for your right leg, which is being pushed into poosition by the position of the left leg-that way, you can hit the tight bits on your right leg and hip-looks instead like you are hitting a brick wall.
With the new left foot position, you will be able to get rid of the knee hyper-extension which you are exhibiting at the moment-I can tell this by the prominence of the left calf muscles-which is parlty why the right leg looks wrong-look at the force vector created by the extension of the left knee-and see how the right hip is following the same vector, or at least is influenced by it. You want that left knee pulled up-not just the kneecap, the knee itself-then the forces going through the knee compliment a better attempt at this pose.
I think with that left knee rotated around, you should be able to flex the hips more and create better posture all round.
Also, see how the right shoulder is internally rotated still-work on getting the shoulder to spiral as you come into position-really helps if you look at the right arm, rather than at the left hand, as you come into the posture-usually, I'll look up at the left hand as it goes over my head, and then start to turn my attention to my right arm by revolving my head and neck and thoracic spine-then everything is near to the correct place as I come into the posture.
About the hamstrings-if you don't feel hamstring stretch, you are not doing the posture properly-ever-so try to put your pelvis in a postion which allows you to feel the most complete hamstring stretch. when students don't feel the stretch, I can always illicit one-they've just learned how to cheat, or not improve.
And get rid of that extended thumb-you aren't hitching
Apart from that, good one-keep up the good work.

Nick
p.s. let's meet up in a London park this summer-if the weather's fine, we should be able to find somewhere without too many people-or I'll try and find some space-it's up to you, of course.

Edited by Nick 2007-04-12 10:14 AM
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TampaEric
Posted 2007-04-12 11:00 AM (#83123 - in reply to #82844)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana


Nick, you have keen eye. I'd forgotten about the heels.

That can make a huge difference in this asana and Parsvottanasana too.

Although once the legs, hips and ankles are ready wouldn't you strive towards heels in a straight line? It works for me...as long as the wind isn't too strong

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Nick
Posted 2007-04-12 11:16 AM (#83127 - in reply to #83123)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana



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Location: London, England
TampaEric - 2007-04-12 4:00 PM

Nick, you have keen eye. I'd forgotten about the heels.

That can make a huge difference in this asana and Parsvottanasana too.

Although once the legs, hips and ankles are ready wouldn't you strive towards heels in a straight line? It works for me...as long as the wind isn't too strong


Hi Eric,
I think different forms of yoga teach different heel positions-my own take does not reflect the usual astanga technique. At least, I don't think it does. All I can say is, that I hope my take is based on a sound knowledge of human anatomy. The human was not designed to locomote with the feet on a line-cats feet do, but not us. So I design yoga postures based on what our anatomy is capable of doing without injury. if you have the feet on a line, for example, it's almost impossible to stabilize the sacro-iliac joints-you can visualize how they are being strained in the position that Ian is doing. When a human walks or runs, the skeleton is designed so that the SI joint closes as the hips oscillate to move the feet over the ground-this preserves the joint and allows the forces that we create to move us more efficiently and faster if necessary-or that's what should happen! So in learning to do pavritta trikonasana with the heels in line, you are teaching yourself to expose the SI joint to conditions which encourage pathology-and mediocre performance. There may be exceptions-there always are-but the exceptions can be considered mutants-far away from the norm.

Nick
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TampaEric
Posted 2007-04-12 12:01 PM (#83133 - in reply to #82844)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana


Yea, the Ashtanga method is not the easiest path to follow. And, I can see how practicing revolved triangle could damage the low back if you play tug of war without the foundation of the legs.

I struggled in the beginning with this posture, but now it feels completely safe (for me) and wonderful with the heels in a straight line.

Now I'm curious: What other postures are you pro or con with heels in a line?

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Nick
Posted 2007-04-12 12:55 PM (#83145 - in reply to #83133)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana



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Location: London, England
Hi Eric,
I use two foot postures only-the first foot position, with the instep of the back foot in line (and at ninety degrees) with the heel of the front foot, and the second foot position, with the feet either side of a line between them, and with the back foot more turned to the side of the front foot. I use the first foot position for all the postures where the body is turned to the front, such as trikonasana and parsvakonasana, and the second foot position for all postures which involve turning the body to the side of the front leg or beyond-pavritta tirkonasana, pavritta parsvakonasana, virabhadhrasana 1, etc.
If I was forced to give a guideline on standing postures, I would say that each one should 'scour' the hip joints. This involves rotating the head of the femur within the acetabulum of the pelvis (ball and socket). I think that when standing poses go wrong, is when students forget to scour, and instead, almost try to dislodge the ball from the socket-I think you can get a sense of that from Ian's posture-I'm pretty sure that there is no need for him to do that, but he just has to re-position to be able to scour the hip-sometimes this also involves bending the front knee-often does, in fact, to learn how to scour properly.
Take care
Nick
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tourist
Posted 2007-04-12 7:08 PM (#83189 - in reply to #83145)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana



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Wait a sec - you are saying heel to instep is ok but heel to heel is not? I am confused. Heel to heel is less "crossed" legs than heel to instep, the way I see it. And as I read this I am thinking about the Q angle and maybe quite a few of us need to be a bit farther apart (not much) than either side of a line...
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Barbara
Posted 2007-04-12 8:52 PM (#83200 - in reply to #82844)
Subject: RE: Parvritta Trikonasana


I think it's perfectly fine to line your feet heel to heel in postures where you need to balance your hips forward. In this picture I see tight hamstrings first of all. Tight hips next. The solution (and I am an Ashtangi who teaches and props when necessary): bring the right foot to the right. Line heel to heel or further apart if necessary in order to bring the right hip back (which enables the leg to straighten, with pressure in the heel) and the left hip forward. Bring your left hand to your shin, or on to the floor or to a block on the inside or outside of the right foot. Press your palm into the floor or block and lift up with your right hand as you rotate your torso.Your left palm should be pressing down as the right hand is liftng. Draw your upper inner thighs toward each other and keep that intention as your right hip pulls back. In time, you won't have to move your foot so far to the right to get your hips forward and in the same plane. Does that make sense? Try it. Keep a forward lift in the chest and a lengthening from the sacrum to the crown of the head.

Edited by Barbara 2007-04-12 9:00 PM
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