|
|
| I've just finished a Mysore class where I've yet again been struggling with Supta Kurmasana. I've had a couple of teachers point out to me that, due to my proportions--relatively short legs, that this posture will be difficult for me, or perhaps impossible.
It breaks my heart to consider the latter. It's not so much that I care if I have the posture or not, it's more the idea that I may never be able to do it no matter how hard I try.
Are there any teachers out there who have experience with assists across a variety of body types in this posture who can send me some encouragement? How about those with experience from your own practice? Are there photos or image links that may be helpful for me to visualize?
I have heard that one option may be for me to move directly in to crossing my legs behind the back of the neck, as that may be easier for me than crossing them over/in front of the top of my head first.
Thank you,
dy |
|
| |
|
| It is true that your body proportions might make it more challenging.
However, Kino McGregor is pretty small. Respectfully, I would say she is short. And she just completed third series.
Sharath brings his legs behind his head first and the lowers down to the ground. He has very thin long legs. Mine look like a professional wrestlers legs in comparison.
I cannot bind in supta kurmasana yet, so I can't really say for sure. I'm still working on it and I've been practing 4-5 years! David Swenson says to practice 10 years and if you can't do it then, then you should take a good look at it and either keep working on it or let it go. My goal is to loose about 10 pounds. Weight can be an issue. I do know this first hand. When I'm at my leanest weight binding is much easier.
And remember one day everyone will have to give up advanced asana. The are just temporary.
Eric
|
|
| |
|
   
Location: London, England | displacedyogi - 2007-04-19 5:18 PM
I've just finished a Mysore class where I've yet again been struggling with Supta Kurmasana. I've had a couple of teachers point out to me that, due to my proportions--relatively short legs, that this posture will be difficult for me, or perhaps impossible.
It breaks my heart to consider the latter. It's not so much that I care if I have the posture or not, it's more the idea that I may never be able to do it no matter how hard I try.
Are there any teachers out there who have experience with assists across a variety of body types in this posture who can send me some encouragement? How about those with experience from your own practice? Are there photos or image links that may be helpful for me to visualize?
I have heard that one option may be for me to move directly in to crossing my legs behind the back of the neck, as that may be easier for me than crossing them over/in front of the top of my head first.
Thank you,
dy
Hi Dy,
First of all, welcome to the board. With reference to putting the feet behind the head or behind the neck, this can indeed be affected by leg length. But I would say that both are representations of supta kurmasana, although for most, putting the feet down the neck will actually be more advanced-so don't sweat it about putting your feet there.
Without going to much into it, vthe shoulder position and consequent hand placement are vital-obviously, if the shoulders are being pushed forwards by the legs, then the hands are being pulled apart-do you have difficulty binding?
Nick |
|
| |
|
| Hey Nick,
I can put both feet behind my head, but I can't bind my hands.
Do you think this is a hamstring issue or my fat stomach?
Eric
|
|
| |
|
Location: London, England | TampaEric - 2007-04-20 8:11 PM
Hey Nick,
I can put both feet behind my head, but I can't bind my hands.
Do you think this is a hamstring issue or my fat stomach?
Eric
Hi Eric,
You must have put some weight on since you had your photo taken  A photo would be invaluable-that way, I can tell you whether it is anatomically possible, which I'm already certain it is, or whehter perhaps the width of your back and the length of your arms make it more diificult or impossible. A photo from the back and from the side would be useful.
Not being able to bind the hands is almost always due to incorrect posture in experienced practicioners such as yourself. Of course, learning correct posture then means that you become a beginner again, but I'm sure you can take it-the relegation may only be a few minutes long Or months, unfortunately.
The most common error is to try to link the hands with not enough bend in the elbows-bending the elbows to about 90 degrees brings the hands closer together in most-or either side of ninety degrees. because the hands come up off the floor, resistance to taking them further up the back by bending the elbows makes a lot of students the hands at pelvic level-too low. Then, when they try to find the bind, the hands are searching in the wrong direction. Sometimes, a belt works well-makes you realize the arm position to take your hands closer together-minimum belt between the two hands. This should aslo guide you to the best posture in other joints of your body.
Take care
Nick |
|
| |
|
| Thanks Nick,
Well, yes and no. That pic is a little old. You'd be surprised what 10 pounds can do. I tend to carry more of my fat in my stomach area. Don't get me wrong, I'm strong, probably stronger and more flexible than I was in the photo, but there's a little bicycle tire around my waist. I'm truly committed to my practice and I'm working on my weight issue. I was about 10 pounds heavier around Xmas. So, i'm moving in the right direction...It's really a tough issue that I'm trying very hard to get over.
I'm willing to send/post photos. Also, i'm studying with Kino McGregor this weekend, so maybe I will ask if she will adjust me in the pose to see where I'm at. In fact, one of the other students is goign to take pictures, so maybe I can get a pic of me in the pose!
I haven't been adjusted in it since Guruji was in NY. |
|
| |
|
Location: London, England | Tight hamstrings? maybe, but as the knees are flexed, the hamstrings are not being engaged along their whole length-probably just the upper fibres-so you may get stretch just underneath the sittting bones.
A really important thing, in common with most other forward bends, is to engage the gluteal muscles properly-this is difficult because they are being lengthened. part of what contracting the glutes does is kind of lift you up off your sitting bones, and moves your centre of gravity up your body-so your weight is more evenly distributed along the legs-you will feel the heels press into the floor, or on the back of your head, depending where your feet are.
Regarding the hamstrings, these should actually be contracting, even though they are in a lenghtened position-not surprising, given the functions they share with the gluteal muscles. This should make it feel as though you are pulling yourself towards the point where yuor feet are on the floor, or forwards. Then you've got it-constant improvement
Nick |
|
| |
|
Location: London, England | Hi Eric,
Believe me, I know what even a couple of pounds 'over-weight' does to your ability I think, though, it affects my ability to lift in handstands or vinyasa more than the postures themselves-but then, I was never more than a few pounds over, so I'm sure that more than a little will affect some postures-probably much more than this one, where the legs are spread.
Nick |
|
| |
|
| Thanks for the help. I'll get back to you.
Eric
|
|
| |
|
| Thanks Nick & Eric, for your comments and feedback. This seems like a great forum, and I'm glad I ran across it.
To answer your question, Nick, yes I do have some difficulty binding. I find though, that if I bind my arms first and then have an adjustment it makes the whole thing a lot easier. I believe this is because the bind "forces" my shoulders to be in the right place, and then I can sort of squiggle in to the right place with my legs. Usually, though, once I get to a certain point, the legs put too much pressure on my shoulders and I lose the bind. Why do you think this is? Is there any way through it?
I try sometimes to practice putting one leg at a time behind my head while sitting up, this provides a really nice stretch and I hope will ultimately be of some help as I continue to practice this asana.
Are there any other strategies that I could try?
Cheers,
dy |
|
| |
|
Location: London, England | displacedyogi - 2007-04-22 3:33 AM
Thanks Nick & Eric, for your comments and feedback. This seems like a great forum, and I'm glad I ran across it.
To answer your question, Nick, yes I do have some difficulty binding. I find though, that if I bind my arms first and then have an adjustment it makes the whole thing a lot easier. I believe this is because the bind "forces" my shoulders to be in the right place, and then I can sort of squiggle in to the right place with my legs. Usually, though, once I get to a certain point, the legs put too much pressure on my shoulders and I lose the bind. Why do you think this is? Is there any way through it?
I try sometimes to practice putting one leg at a time behind my head while sitting up, this provides a really nice stretch and I hope will ultimately be of some help as I continue to practice this asana.
Are there any other strategies that I could try?
Hi,
I experienced the same thing as you in having the bind made difficult by the weight of the legs-well actually, the force that is created by the muscles which are tight. I thought everyone did
I think practicing the initial posture with the hands out to the sides, and trying to internally rotate the hips so the kneecaps face the ceiling helps.
Something else I have found that really helps with my shoulders is when I sweep my hands around behind me to prepare to bind, I press the backs of my hands into the floor-I do this in kurmasana as well-really helps to strengthen the shoulder position.
Nick |
|
| |
|
| Whew!
I survived two mornings of Mysore with Kino McGregor.
She helped me bind in Supta K (just barely the first day) and (for a few breaths the second day).
I asked for it, right? Thankfully I have been practicing regularly and I could handle the strong adjustments. So, no photos were taken. But I did bind. So, I guess I can do it. (with help)
It was very intense. But not as intense as the backbending...I did some dropbacks and then she roped my waist and had me lift my heels up and walk my hands towards my feet. Then bring the heels back down.. whoa! I was only a couple of inches from my heels. I thought my arms were going to come out of torso. She really really pushed me. No strong adjustments in months then I get these...
Strangely on the second day she gave me and one of my student noose and heron pose. Two days and I went to intermediate...
Eric
|
|
| |
|
| I'm able to bind my arms in Supta K, but i'm learning how to push my heels to get them to come towards each other, which definitely involves the hips being open. My teacher has been able to cross my ankles over my head, but i'm still learning how to get into the pose on my own |
|
| |
|
| Well between the two of us we make a good tortoise.
Actually my back is a little cranky. I think my problem is that my body like to bend back but doesn't like to round forward.
Semester over yet?
|
|
| |
|
| just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.....
personally, I've sustained many injuries that have limited my practice, many asanas will never likely be possible with my body.
so what
next
It's not something that yoga cries over, through a developing yoga practice I've found more to life than my physical expression, and I imagine that most folks do.
|
|
| |
|
| Hi SCT,
With respect, we all have different paths to follow. I have a modest self-practice that I'm committed to. I follow the ashtanga method. If I end up never binding again in supta k, I will not be discouraged, but I'm building a strong foundation that should allow me to move to advanced postures with grace and control.
Generally, I only practice 45 minutes a day. But, I do this 6 times a week.
When I have more time for practice, I will add more seated postures.
90% of my practice is Ashtanga standing sequence, Dandanasana and finishing sequence. When I post to this particular board, I'm expecting discussion on the ashtanga method. Ashtanga method is not the easiest or gentlest method, but it works for a lot of people.
Godspeed,
Eric
|
|
| |
|
| TampaEric - 2007-04-25 10:37 AM
Hi SCT,
With respect, we all have different paths to follow. I have a modest self-practice that I'm committed to. I follow the ashtanga method. If I end up never binding again in supta k, I will not be discouraged, but I'm building a strong foundation that should allow me to move to advanced postures with grace and control.
Generally, I only practice 45 minutes a day. But, I do this 6 times a week.
When I have more time for practice, I will add more seated postures.
90% of my practice is Ashtanga standing sequence, Dandanasana and finishing sequence. When I post to this particular board, I'm expecting discussion on the ashtanga method. Ashtanga method is not the easiest or gentlest method, but it works for a lot of people.
Godspeed,
Eric
Your practice sounds a bit like mine, one that I've cultivated since I was 21, I'm 37 now.
We are more than the body.
Yoga is more than sticking a bind in an asana.
My first and greatest teacher learned a lot from David Williams when he was with him. He also studied with David Swenson and some of the more well known 'celebrities' of Yoga, but to me, he is my buddy, Joe, and Joe has helped me develop over the years to understand a little bit, not much, but a little, so I'm not necessarily ignorant.
take a look, you might like what you read, maybe not, I don't know
http://www.ashtangayogi.com/HTML/articles.html
I'd like to say that achieving the most advanced asanas is just a matter of practice, but I simply don't believe that's true, or for that matter, what Yoga is really all about. I certainly would like to believe in some of the more esoteric principles of philosophy so that I could say something like, " maybe in the next lifetime" but honestly how could anyone possibly know, unless it is experienced, and I'm not asking you to take my word for it.
Whatever you expect, check your premises, and consider what expectation is and how preconceived notions fit in with that meditation.
Yes this is a discussion board.
May I feel free to discuss? |
|
| |
|
Location: London, England | Hi,
I think the biggest obstacle to binding is rounding the shoulders-this tends to happen in all the forward bends, and kurmasana makes it much more likely that the hands will never meet. I guess to find out if its anatomically possible, or desirable, you could measure the distance across the back of the body, and the thighs. Then measure the length of your forearm and hands. If the first length is greater than the second length, then it ain't gonna happen. So having a broad back and big thighs isn't going to help, and having arms like a gibbon is
Then, assuming you are ok to bind, which joints are going in the wrong direction? Often the spine is flexed, which pushes the shoulders towards the floor, encouraged by the legs-so you have to get the legs behind you, rather than moving out sideways. I think it is important to try to wind the foot that is on top underneath the foot on the floor-this kind of squeezes the knees in and shortens the legs a bit, and lifts the knees up behind you.
Nick |
|
| |
|
| I found that turning my hands toward or away from my back made a difference, depending on the particular asana and subsequent bind.
I had been having my palm toward my back, once I turned them away, night and day |
|
| |
|
| You might of missed my post, but I did bind this past weekend. Right now, I'm not feeling ready to do the full pose. I think you made some great suggestions and I will update when I've had more time to practice full primary.
I would say my arms are like gibbons. But my thighs and belly are more gorrilla!
Eric
|
|
| |
beyond proportions
