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Binding in One legged Pigeon
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Hehet
Posted 2007-05-06 11:48 AM (#85367)
Subject: Binding in One legged Pigeon


So i've been working with Eka Pada Rajakapotasana I



I can't yet get my head to my foot in the full pose, but for the first time last night I got BOTH hands to reach my bent back leg and can see how to lengthen back into the full pose.

Two things i noticed and wanted to share with you

  1. I have to keep my front foot actively flexed. I wasn't really paying attention to the action in my front foot before and was allowing it to sickle in at the ankle and be passive. by consciously flexing my front foot, the orientation of the hip changes slightly, the pressure comes off my knee which used to ache in this pose, and i was better able to level off my hips and lengthen up and back more than I could
  2. I underestimated how open through the shoulders you need to be. i consciously thought of rolling my shouders back and that helped also.
I just wanted to share what i'd learned


Edited by Hehet 2007-05-06 11:55 AM
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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-05-06 8:32 PM (#85402 - in reply to #85367)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pigeon


You can work with a strap looped around that back foot to get a deeper feeling in the pose even if your body isn't quite open or ready enough to reach back to grasp the foot with your hands. In fact, once you're in position properly, you can try to walk your hands down the strap, bringing you closer back to the foot.

But yes, the front foot is VERY important in this pose. Play with it this way to understand the action/reaction element of the foot to the hip: Come into pigeon, let's say the left leg is in front, right leg long behind you, toes tucked. Try to have the left shin as parallel to the front edge of the mat as you can, so your knee will be a bit more out to the side than your hip. Fold forward, bringing your left forearm to the floor in front of the shin to prop you up. Your right hand will press into the sole of the left foot, forearm may or may not come down to the floor, depends on the level of your hip openness (I can come down almost to my elbow on my tighter side). Press the hand into the foot and the foot into the hand (foot flointed, of course). Your left hip should feel as if it's opening back and wide with this resistance you've created with your hand. This is the action you're trying to create when activating that foot.

If you normally practice pigeon with your shin not parallel to the front edge of the mat, you might find you can't lower your hips to the floor as easily in this variation. That's OK. Prop yourself up as much as needed, then allow (see, there's that word again!) the proper positioning and steadiness that you've created in the pose to naturally generate the opening you're looking for. Equal parts strength to surrender; though for so many of us, it ends up feeling like we're not doing the strength part enough when set up like this, only because we're so accustomed to applying so much strength as a rule. Make sense?

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mishoga
Posted 2007-05-07 6:05 AM (#85427 - in reply to #85367)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pigeon



Expert Yogi

Posts: 1738
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Location: right where I'm supposed to be
I love this pose but I can't seem (or rather I don't have the flexibility in my spine) manifest it.
I can reach back with both hands but my torso naturally pulls forward when I grasp onto the foot.
What prepatory poses help with this?
I love the way this pose looks.

On another note, I finally came into Bakasana for the first time yesterday. I only held it for about 3 seconds but I think my fear is disolving. Me so happy.
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jonnie
Posted 2007-05-07 7:11 AM (#85435 - in reply to #85427)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pigeon


mishoga - 2007-05-07 2:05 PM

I love this pose but I can't seem (or rather I don't have the flexibility in my spine) manifest it.
I can reach back with both hands but my torso naturally pulls forward when I grasp onto the foot.
What prepatory poses help with this?
I love the way this pose looks.

On another note, I finally came into Bakasana for the first time yesterday. I only held it for about 3 seconds but I think my fear is disolving. Me so happy.


Oh, too many...

Anything that works the quads/psoas/back would help.

Camel would be great and anything that improves your front splits.

Congrats on Bakasana. How is the nose?

Jonathon
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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-05-07 7:11 AM (#85436 - in reply to #85427)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pigeon


It's not so much prep poses as learning the actions involved in this pose. Lengthening the torso while keeping the lumbar spine long (tailbone tucked with lower ribs in are good cues). Shoulder blades down and in the back with the arms extended. Anjaneyasana is a good pose to work for all these actions, but if you neglect the proper alignment there, it won't help you one bit. When we work this kneeling lunge, we way we get into is to come out of it a bit first. Back off the bent knee a bit, coming more upright, hands on the front thigh. Draw the body back as if in a cat stretch, tucking the chin a bit. Keeping this fullness in the back body, bring the head back up to look forward, raise the arms from the action of the side body lengthening, and bend the front knee more deeply. Work to keep the hips in line with each other, keeping the tailbone tucked and low ribs drawn in. Eventually the arms will reach further behind you (thumbs pointing back) and the head will follow, opening the throat.

Basically, I just described the what happens in pigeon, just that the legs are aligned differently. There's also actions that happen with the back leg thigh and knee, but I'm still working to understand them myself, so I don't want to misdirect you here. Oh, and don't forget about the front leg hip crease -- keep it nice and open, drawing back at the same time that the front knee bends forward.

Pull in to expand out, pretty much the basic concept in every pose.



Edited by OrangeMat 2007-05-07 7:12 AM
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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-05-07 7:24 AM (#85437 - in reply to #85427)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pigeon


Oh yes, congrats on bakasana as well! The key for me in that pose has always been sitting in malasana quite a bit first, but not allowing my hips joints to do most of the work while there. You can squat down pretty low, I'm guessing, right? Try lifting up your butt maybe a half inch higher, and notice how different muscle now come into play. Talk about quad killers! Make the glutes work as well, also the hamstrings. Use all your legs (abs too) to hold the slightly higher squat, rather than allowing a spreading feeling to happen in the hips (that's called hanging in the hip joints, I've discovered, something I've been guilty of forever).

The other day we moved into bakasana from that squat on the toes, heels together, knees outward (don't know the name). Can't sit in the hip joints in that one, for sure! It was the first time I was able to transition to bakasana keeping my heels together, which is how we're encouraged to practice the pose. Even shot my feet back into plank rather gracefully from there, I must say. Sometimes you just have these practices that you don't know where they came from, your body is somehow just able to do things that day that it doesn't know it's not supposed to be able to do.

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jonnie
Posted 2007-05-07 7:29 AM (#85438 - in reply to #85436)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pigeon


OrangeMat - 2007-05-07 3:11 PM

It's not so much prep poses as learning the actions involved in this pose.



Not so much the prep poses???

Didn't they teach you about vinyasa at TT school
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mishoga
Posted 2007-05-07 7:30 AM (#85439 - in reply to #85367)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pigeon



Expert Yogi

Posts: 1738
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Location: right where I'm supposed to be
Om, I think the name of that is Prapidasana. Not sure but I think so.

OK, this is a horrible picture. Took this two years ago (well maybe a little less) and had to jump into this with 3 seconds to take pic (exagerated, but no time to prep)
When I come into Eka Pada Rajakapotasana with leg extended and releasing torso over front let, my groin releases down to the ground. As soon as I lift, my groin starts to lift. And once I reach back my torso pulls forward.
Aren't I supposed to reach arms over head?
Give me some pointers. Also remember, I'm a little bit more flexible in this pose now but still tight. Could the fact that I broke my pelvic bone in my twenties prevent me from fully opening into this pose? I guess anything is possible.
I would really like to be able to open more in this asana

Jonnie, the nose and teeth are fine (thank the lord) I don't like ustrasana!



Edited by mishoga 2007-05-07 7:47 AM




(yogaz1.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments yogaz1.JPG (9KB - 177 downloads)
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jonnie
Posted 2007-05-07 7:47 AM (#85441 - in reply to #85439)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pigeon


No doubt nick will write you a 10,000 word reply though my immediate observation is that you are very tight in the groin area. Compare your picture to Hehet's and you will notice that your back leg needs a lot more work (quads & psoas).

So, your primary work in this pose should be to get that back thigh flater (then you won't need the right arm for support), to give you a strong base to launch your back bend from.

Jonathon
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mishoga
Posted 2007-05-07 8:08 AM (#85444 - in reply to #85367)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pigeon



Expert Yogi

Posts: 1738
100050010010025
Location: right where I'm supposed to be
OK, so I need to lengthen my psoas and quads. What are good poses for that? I would imagine restorative poses would be good held for a decent length of time.

That pic is so pathetic I'm embarrassed to have it shown here but there is no other way but to show all of you to get input.

I envy others who can so easily master backbends and the many variations. I marvel at Dharma Mittras' flexibility. Ever since my accident and my broken pelvic bone, I have had limitation in that regard. I have come to accept I may never be able to practice certain poses.
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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-05-07 8:49 AM (#85446 - in reply to #85438)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pigeon


jonnie - 2007-05-07 7:29 AM
OrangeMat - 2007-05-07 3:11 PM

It's not so much prep poses as learning the actions involved in this pose.

Not so much the prep poses??? Didn't they teach you about vinyasa at TT school

Oh come on, you know what I mean! Didn't you read the next part? "if you neglect the proper alignment there, it won't help you one bit". Yes, of course you need the prep poses, sheesh!

Running late to get out the house for my restorative training this week. Nothing like rushing to hurry up and relax!

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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-05-07 8:53 AM (#85447 - in reply to #85444)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pigeon


Mish, stop with the negative chatter already! Yes, restorative is good (hence my immersion this week with Judith Lasater), but maybe the first step is to adopt the attitude of restorative in every pose you practice. Instead of sucking, let gravity be your friend.

OK, I'm seriously outta here, or I'm going to miss my train!

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mishoga
Posted 2007-05-07 8:57 AM (#85448 - in reply to #85446)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pigeon



Expert Yogi

Posts: 1738
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Location: right where I'm supposed to be
OrangeMat - 2007-05-07 8:49 AM

Nothing like rushing to hurry up and relax!


Hahahahahahahahaha, this is my life
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okidoll
Posted 2007-05-07 10:29 AM (#85455 - in reply to #85367)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pige


I'm so glad I'm not the only person that has trouble with this pose. I love it so much as it helps with these horrid back and hip spasms I get, but in that lies the problem as I can easily move to the spot that helps with the pain, yet I get lost somewhere after that with arm or leg placement.
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Hehet
Posted 2007-05-07 12:16 PM (#85469 - in reply to #85444)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pige


the pic isn't pathetic, it simply shows where you are at a particular point, not where you're meant to stay. 

@ OrangeMat, i'll try the modification with my shin parallel to the mat, i know i'll need a cushion, this will be a good way to "allow" the hips to open, plus it's much nicer to the knees

mishoga - 2007-05-07 7:08 AMOK, so I need to lengthen my psoas and quads. What are good poses for that? I would imagine restorative poses would be good held for a decent length of time.That pic is so pathetic I'm embarrassed to have it shown here but there is no other way but to show all of you to get input.I envy others who can so easily master backbends and the many variations. I marvel at Dharma Mittras' flexibility. Ever since my accident and my broken pelvic bone, I have had limitation in that regard. I have come to accept I may never be able to practice certain poses.
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TampaEric
Posted 2007-05-07 1:09 PM (#85479 - in reply to #85367)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pigeon


If you want to get into this pose here a few pointers...

Prep poses: standing (warrior I, dancer, low lunge, side angle, scorpion)
seated (Janu sirsana, baddha konasana, frog pose)

First practice pigeon
Then grab the back foot and draw it into the buttocks, fold forward
Once you can do that
practice pigeon and take the foot with your elbow clasp hands
then for the grab...

You must be able to roll the shoulder.
Think of a jumprope (arm, shoulder, foot) that you have to go under the arch. Once you can slide under the arch, your chest will open up big time. so, be ready for it.

Good Luck,

Eric



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Hehet
Posted 2007-05-07 1:34 PM (#85482 - in reply to #85479)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pige


i'm going to combine this with what OM said

TampaEric - 2007-05-07 12:09 PMIf you want to get into this pose here a few pointers...Prep poses: standing (warrior I, dancer, low lunge, side angle, scorpion)seated (Janu sirsana, baddha konasana, frog pose)First practice pigeon Then grab the back foot and draw it into the buttocks, fold forwardOnce you can do thatpractice pigeon and take the foot with your elbow clasp handsthen for the grab...You must be able to roll the shoulder. Think of a jumprope (arm, shoulder, foot) that you have to go under the arch. Once you can slide under the arch, your chest will open up big time. so, be ready for it.Good Luck,Eric
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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-05-08 7:24 AM (#85537 - in reply to #85439)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pigeon


mishoga - 2007-05-07 7:30 AM Om, I think the name of that is Prapidasana. Not sure but I think so.

Mish, I've looked this name up but can't find it anywhere. Also can't find any other name for the pose we're both talking about (used in kundalini, right?) other than Frog Pose, which I know as something else (lying prone, double quad stretch, Bhekasana). I know the names aren't important, but still, I do like to know what I'm talking about!

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TampaEric
Posted 2007-05-08 10:51 AM (#85553 - in reply to #85537)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pige


http://tinyurl.com/ywmoyc

Might it be Malasana? Garland Pose?

Eric
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mishoga
Posted 2007-05-08 12:34 PM (#85565 - in reply to #85367)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pigeon



Expert Yogi

Posts: 1738
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Location: right where I'm supposed to be
Hold on, maybe I spelled it wrong.....

Sorry, I spelled it wrong again
"Prapadasana" (tiptoe pose) except with heels together and knees out (variation)

Edited by mishoga 2007-05-08 12:36 PM
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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-05-08 8:16 PM (#85601 - in reply to #85553)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pigeon


Eric, this is the closest picture I've found to the pose I'm talking about, though the name isn't prapadasana.

It's called "Squat Pose Heels Up" (not going to try the Sanskrit for that one!). Except the variation I was talking about had the heels touching and maybe even the balls of the feet together, when I practice it at least. You're pretty much sitting on your heels, if you're open enough in the external hip rotators (mine are ridiculously open, so this pose is nothing for me other than the balance aspect). From the heels together here, I transitioned to bakasana, piece of cake!

Mish, I found this pose called Prapidasana, which I thought was somewhat interesting that one leg was straight out (the direct link to the pose is broken, so it's the 4th row, first picture). We're talking about the same knees out squat though, right? Just wanted to make sure.

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Hehet
Posted 2007-05-08 8:45 PM (#85605 - in reply to #85367)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pige


Yay!!

I chose a hip-opening practice today after my exam (i needed something gentler)

so i followed orangemat's advice about attempting the asana with my shin parallel to the mat, and guess what?  i was able to bind and then reach with the other hand and bend back so my toes touched my head.  it felt wonderful, no strain in my back whatsoever

gonna do again tomorrow!  My teacher's doing a chakra class with coloured lighting so i'm hoping we're doing Muladhara and Svaddisthana

pranams to you, OM!

and thanks to everyone else


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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-05-08 8:55 PM (#85607 - in reply to #85605)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pige


Congrats to you, Hehet! But don't thank me, I'm just the vehicle for the teachings.

Svaddisthana, the second chakra whose color is orange , do you know what the word means? "Sweetness". Pretty cool, eh?

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Bay Guy
Posted 2007-05-08 10:17 PM (#85618 - in reply to #85607)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pige



Expert Yogi

Posts: 2479
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Location: A Blue State

This is a pose that I love dearly.

But can someone tell me who is the model in the original photo? Thanks.

You need to release the 'psoas' for sure, and it helps to open the shoulders and upper back, and to stretch the quads, as well.

The points of the pelvic bone should be parallel to the wall in front of you, and the back leg should be aligned flat on the floor (no rotation).

I go into this in various ways.  Tonight I did a fairly light preparation:

Hanumanasana

Ustrasana (about 2 minutes)

Dhanurasana (twice)

Bhekasana

Standing bow

Deep lunges, with backward bending

Eka Pada Rajakapotasana I (i.e., this) first time

Eka Pada Rajakapotasana II

Valakilyasana (i.e., this, but with the foot to the floor)

To work this pose more deeply, which I think means "with greater release in the upper back and thighs", I would put another 20 minutes of backbending ahead of it, including especially Urdhva Dhanurasana, Dwipada Viparata Dandasana, and Kapotasana (and other fun stuff that is less relevant to opening for this pose). If you pay attention to keeping the knees in (or together) in these, you will find it easier to hold the hip alignment in EPRK I.

.. bg

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Hehet
Posted 2007-05-08 10:36 PM (#85619 - in reply to #85618)
Subject: RE: Binding in One legged Pige


I'm gonna write this down in designing a backbend flow series (thumbs up!)

it was just a picture I found on yogajournal.com when i first started researching the pose

@ OM, for "sweetness" - that's brilliant

Bay Guy - 2007-05-08 9:17 PM

This is a pose that I love dearly.

But can someone tell me who is the model in the original photo? Thanks.

You need to release the 'psoas' for sure, and it helps to open the shoulders and upper back, and to stretch the quads, as well.

The points of the pelvic bone should be parallel to the wall in front of you, and the back leg should be aligned flat on the floor (no rotation).

I go into this in various ways. Tonight I did a fairly light preparation:

Hanumanasana

Ustrasana (about 2 minutes)

Dhanurasana (twice)

Bhekasana

Standing bow

Deep lunges, with backward bending

Eka Pada Rajakapotasana I (i.e., this) first time

Eka Pada Rajakapotasana II

Valakilyasana (i.e., this, but with the foot to the floor)

To work this pose more deeply, which I think means "with greater release in the upper back and thighs", I would put another 20 minutes of backbending ahead of it, including especially Urdhva Dhanurasana, Dwipada Viparata Dandasana, and Kapotasana (and other fun stuff that is less relevant to opening for this pose). If you pay attention to keeping the knees in (or together) in these, you will find it easier to hold the hip alignment in EPRK I.

.. bg

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