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| Hi Lisa,
As well as the upwards facing dog (urdhva muhka svanasana) and wheel (urdhva dhanurasana) which are already in the series, I would add camel (ustrasana) and bridge (setu bandha sarvangasana). Don't confuse this with the setu bandhasana which is already in the series, as the Ashtanga version is more of a strength builder as opposed to an opener.
With my Iyengar background, I also like to work setu bandha on a chair as I really feel my back opening.
Remember, that backbends are also improved by working the quads and the psoas muscles on the front of the body as well, so deep lunges and supta virasana are also very useful.
Jonathon
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| Hehet - 2007-06-06 1:16 PM
what's rolfing?
Hi Shakira,
Tourist gave the basics, deep tissue work. It is a process of separating and lengthening the fascia that surrounds each muscle, set of muscles, joints and organs - allowing more internal space for life-giving motion. It is the deep holding of tissue as the muscle is lengthened: the fascia is held stationary and the muscle(s) under it is lengthened. Everytime we get a strain or sprain, inflammation tacks the local fascia to the involved inflammatory site. It stays that way unless released actively (by you) or passively (by someone else for you).
Ida Rolf, MD, used yoga early in her career and more information can be found at:
http://www.rolf.org/about/yoga.htm
All body work, as Jonnie posted, carries emotions, including yoagasana. Injuries have emotions as part of the neurology of the incident; the domineering mother, for example, causes the child to duck the head forward and lean away from the dominance; our emotional states are visible to one another as we scan each other. In Rolfing, classically the fifth session (of ten) involves deep work in the interior throat. It is not unusual for the person being treated to experience a sense of deep emotion during this session, often accompanied by a feeling of having to vomit. But what arises is not vomitus, but a "ball of emotion" as it is commonly expressed. It's as if the emotions we've swallowed are a physical thing that is released during the session. When we are touched in places that hold body emotions, they often come forward, if we are able to let them. The process of surrendering, to another's deep body work, or to our own recognition of our current state in life can touch us emotionally. These are healthy and cleansing experiences for the sincere Yoga student.
Michael |
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Location: London, England | Hi there,
Amd if you want a really fantastic book writen by a rolfer, its 'anatomy trains' by Thomas myers-not about rolfing as such, but about how to apply work to one tissue in order to affect tissues all round the body-every yoga teacher should know this book inside out, in my (very humble) opinion.
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| Two great posts guys.
Thanks for the link and book recommendations.
Jonathon
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Oregon | Is that normal to occur at some point?
From what I've heard, it is. It's happened to me 2-3 times. What jonnie said about the body storing emotions and tensions, sure strikes a chord with me. There was an imbalance with my life partner in expression and availability of/for emotion. After 10 years, there was so much backlogged. I'm relatively new to Yoga, and as I jumped into it pretty intensely, a big part of my practice has involved letting out emotion. I'm a bit fatigued by it, and trying to find some balance. |
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| Hi Yogis,
I'm not so sure about emotions being 'stored' in the body, and coming out through body work.To me this seems to be a popular idea that's going around, with no real investigation. I have noticed emotions (when I have identified with ego) creating tension in the body, but this then becomes a physical blockage, only to be released through physical means ie: yogasana, massage etc., as a habit or memory of tension has developed in the cells.
In my experience it is more that when I create a space in my life and slow down enough or stop and am really present, then there is a chance for a suppressed emotion, memory, thought to come up. Sometimes emotion comes because I am simply tired.
Hari Om,
Soul
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| Souljourney -- In a very simplistic way (the way I understand it, that is  ), somatic psychotherapy deals with those emotions that are "stored" in the body. Anodea Judith's book Eastern Body, Western Mind deals extensively with this concept in her investigation of the chakras as they relate to modern psychotherapy. Even the 50 page introduction is worth looking through and incredibly enlightening, if reading a 400+ page book isn't what you're looking for right now. As one of my teacher puts it, every member of humanity should read this book. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Oregon | souljourney, I don't think it's just currently popular. It's been known for a while that exercise, the release of whatever chemical (I can never remember stuff like this) can combat depression. Stress or tension that isn't released can become a migraine. Long before I practiced Yoga, I was aware that tension is stored in my chest. The physical/emotional release is vital. That's how it is for me, anyway. From my discussions with others, I don't think I'm alone on this.
Mind you, I'm in agreement with you about finding the time for quiet and stillness. It is the best time spent, so infrequently taken in a busy society. I personally don't need quite to allow for emotion. But my speculation on why Yoga (or just being still) is hard for some people is that the quiet does mean the emotions/thoughts that are buried will be allowed to surface. If one would rather them stay buried, they'll have a hard time.
When I was at my lowest in life, it was brutal at times to look at myself in a mirror for 90 minutes with no other distractions besides the Yoga. If you don't like what you see or are feeling rejected... whew. Ultimately worth it, but not everyone's cup of tea, that's for sure. |
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Expert Yogi
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| souljourney108 - 2007-06-11 7:55 PM
I have noticed emotions (when I have identified with ego) creating tension in the body, but this then becomes a physical blockage, only to be released through physical means ie: yogasana, massage etc., as a habit or memory of tension has developed in the cells.
SJ - I find this to be an excellent description of what we call "storing emotions in the body."  But in fact there are some studies that are showing this sort of thing is more "real" and less new age mumbo jumbo than we think. Certainly we now know that not all the "thinking" done by the individual is done in the brain. If you watch the Colbert Report, you would have seen Michael Gershon last night discussing his book: The Second Brain: A Groundbreaking New Understanding of Nervous Disorders of the Stomach and Intestine. Fascinating stuff |
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| Tourist, I just heard about that same book, but have absolutely no clue from whom and in what context! Well, thanks for reminding me about it anyhow. |
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| DJ Dre - 2007-06-13 1:33 AM
souljourney, I don't think it's just currently popular. It's been known for a while that exercise, the release of whatever chemical (I can never remember stuff like this) can combat depression. Stress or tension that isn't released can become a migraine. Long before I practiced Yoga, I was aware that tension is stored in my chest. The physical/emotional release is vital. That's how it is for me, anyway. From my discussions with others, I don't think I'm alone on this.
Hi Dj Dre,
Yes, there's not disagreement with this. I am aware of emotions causing tightness, contraction, blockage in the body. And, yes,asana and other work to move energy blockages.
I'll try and communicate this better. What I' doubt is whether the physical work actually brings up that same emotion that caused the physical body to tighten, and then get rid of it. The real cause of emotion, ( I guess we are referring to suffering here) the mind, needs to be looked at, and so the emotion is not really released. I still think , observe, that it is not really the asana or massage which is 'bringing up' a stored emotion, from the physical body, but it is the space , the time out from running around, which creates the space for the suppressed emotion/thought to arise.
I don't see how asana or any physical exercise, releasing chemicals to feel good, actually really helps in the long term, to cure depression. It can give you more energy to look at the mind and see the real cause of the depression or suffering. But asana or physical exercise alone does not 'cure' depression.
OM, Thanks for book recommendation. I am very discerning with which books I read, and will check it out, but also go from my own observation to see if it's true or not.
Tourist, Will check that out too. It is all very interesting stuff.
What an amazing thing to observe this body, mind, emotions and the whole movie of it...always changing. But to realize that which doesn't change this the real blessing.
Hari Om,
Soul |
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Location: Oregon | Well, I agree. One without the other is like chocolate chip cookies without the milk. As one favorite instructor says of standing bow, You need to kick and reach at the same time to achieve the pose. We need both. Perhaps the quiet and stillness to allow for things to surface and the physical to trigger the release?
Edited by DJ Dre 2007-06-14 3:37 PM
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| Yes, I see what you are saying. Maybe the physical triggers the release, as well as the space.
I have had more suppressed emotion surface while sitting still (concentration/meditation). Heaps of storms coming up simply sitting. Big tsunamis at times.
One time I did cry a lot during a few sessions of massages, but that was partly because I was thinking about a situation in my life (my boyfriend at the time had just slept with prostitutes) and creating more emotion...digging a bigger hole for myself. The 'he doesn't love me' story. I was addicted to that one!
So there needs to be awareness whether we are 'creating' emotion by thinking and feeding some thought or if it is previous thought /emotion which was suppressed, not looked at, which is resurfacing.
Peace within,
Soul
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| There is a difference I think, between a general tension release and emotions pouring out from incidents or emotions in the fairly recent past and the deep release that brings back vivid, possibly forgotten memories. Perhaps they are variations on the same animal, The obvious example of this would be someone who had repressed childhood abuse or memories of war that suddenly flood back in living colour when a certain area is worked on. |
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| souljourney108 - 2007-06-11 10:55 PM
Sometimes emotion comes because I am simply tired.
Hari Om,
Soul
Yes, SJ, I agree, sometimes we're just tired.
It happens to me all the time too.
Namaste
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| tourist - 2007-06-16 11:52 PM
The obvious example of this would be someone who had repressed childhood abuse or memories of war that suddenly flood back in living colour when a certain area is worked on.
Have you seen this happen?
I have never seen this and I must have massaged about 5000 people.
How can we be sure whether the memory has come up because the muscles were worked on or it just came up spontaneously because of the distraction free environment and because they are ready to heal and look at these memories? So, this makes the question simple now... Is emotion/thought stored in actual physical muscle cells? Is emotion/thought in the muscles?
I think it's good to look at this.
Peace,
Soul
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| I have not seen this happen and I think it is more rare than we are led to believe. I have, however, heard first hand reports from very reliable sources (the patient, not the practitioner) about it. I agree that the distraction free environment etc. may be part of the answer as far as body work goes, but it doesn't really explain some of the events that happen in the midst of an active asana class. |
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Location: London, England | I had one student who cried whenever we did a good backbend session-she told me not to worry, I think she felt the emotional release was good for her-I didn't feel it was my place to analyze what caused these emotions-and she didn't offer an explanation.
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| souljourney108 - 2007-06-16 2:13 AM So, this makes the question simple now... Is emotion/thought stored in actual physical muscle cells? Is emotion/thought in the muscles? I think it's good to look at this. Peace, Soul There are more layers to an individual than just the physical where things are "stored". The annamaya kosha is only the first (outermost) of the sheaths over the true Self. Your question about whether thought or emotion is physically in the muscles is like doing an operation on someone in search of their chakras. Totally different realm. An example: you know how when someone is standing behind you, and you neither see them nor hear them, but you can "feel" their presence nonetheless? That's not part of any "physical" muscle function. That's part of your energetic body registering the presence of someone else's. Now if you say that's not "real", then fine, we've just got a difference of opinion, no harm done. |
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| tourist - 2007-06-16 10:22 AM I have not seen this happen and I think it is more rare than we are led to believe. I have, however, heard first hand reports from very reliable sources (the patient, not the practitioner) about it. I agree that the distraction free environment etc. may be part of the answer as far as body work goes, but it doesn't really explain some of the events that happen in the midst of an active asana class. I'm always reminded of the movie "Pleasantville", where how only some people could see that the world really was in color, though with a bit of coaxing and openmindedness, others could see the color (i.e. truth) as well. So once this capacity is cultivated sufficiently, it could happen even in active poses as well, yes? I really doubt I'm the only "weird" one that's had energetic releases in poses like anjaneyasana, urdhva dhanurasana, pigeon, fish, to name a few. I think it's more that people just don't talk about it. Weirdness, is, well, just weird. |
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| OrangeMat - 2007-06-17 12:47 AM
souljourney108 - 2007-06-16 2:13 AM So, this makes the question simple now... Is emotion/thought stored in actual physical muscle cells? Is emotion/thought in the muscles? I think it's good to look at this. Peace, Soul There are more layers to an individual than just the physical where things are "stored". The annamaya kosha is only the first (outermost) of the sheaths over the true Self. Your question about whether thought or emotion is physically in the muscles is like doing an operation on someone in search of their chakras. Totally different realm. An example: you know how when someone is standing behind you, and you neither see them nor hear them, but you can "feel" their presence nonetheless? That's not part of any "physical" muscle function. That's part of your energetic body registering the presence of someone else's. Now if you say that's not "real", then fine, we've just got a difference of opinion, no harm done.
Hi OM,
Yes I am aware of the Koshas and I don't say that feeling someones energy is not "real", meaning you don't feel the energy if aware enough. You answered spot on with the example of the operation. Yes, so the emotion is not stored in the physical, actual muscles. "Totally different realm" as you say.
Nick, It is difficult to study this and understand if we don't communicate or the student doesn't want to talk about it. We don't know what was going on in her life at the time.
Tourist, Yes I agree that it is more rare than we are led to believe. I even doubt some peoples interpretation of what is going on.
I read in yoga journal about Anna Forest telling her student to "look for the emotions hidden deep in the muscles" . This I disagree with. It is making the student look for something, therefore taking the student out of the present moment (being with what is) and possibly putting ideas in the students mind as to what they 'should' be experiencing. It is possibly creating unnecessary emotion. People are addicted to emotion. Emotion sells in yoga now. Now asana can be sold to people as a cure to your emotions. The only cure is in looking at the mind. The creator of suffering.
Whenever emotion arises, to me, it is no big deal. Part of the passing parade. It is not who I am.
Whatever the cause of the emotion, whether tiredness, thoughts,recent or past, I don't think it matters in the end. We need to simply observe and accept this is what is arising in the moment , look at it, feel it and it passes. Looking at how holding onto the thoughts perpetuates the emotion.
If we are teachers, we can guide our students in this way. We want liberation from emotion and suffering for them.
Peace,
Soul
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| Oh, the article in Yoga Journal is not 'by' Anna forest, just quotes her. Here's the article ...
http://www.yogajournal.com/practice/1215_1.cfm
Peace,
Soul
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| Its seems to me that it is western teachers that are coming up with these ideas on yoga (in less than a lifetime mind you) and teaching it as a practice that somehow access's emotions stored in the physical body, interestingly there are no Indian teachers that i know of propagating this meme. I find this highly egotistical and at best not well thought through, being that many of the older teachings point to the mind as the key to freedom from emotional response and effect.
Personally in my experience i don't believe that there is a direct correlation between emotional release and asana. Having said that the mind is an interesting mechanism and under the right conditioning it can seem like you are getting these results whether there is a direct correlation or not thus leading you believe so; let me explain.......
For example: once the meme that: yoga can cause an emotional release is propagated within a community(be it proven or not) then taken on by a person in the community, newbies would be more susceptible i believe. In that persons mind it will be a possibility of this concept happening, as Gautama buddha said ‘All that is, is the result of what we have thought.’. In essence the person is allowing the emotional experience to happen because the are not only expecting it but making a space for it to surface in the mind.
I can agree for sure the the mind is the source/cause of these blockages in the body and I also agree that asana promotes a better flow of prana through the body, making the body less susceptible to blockages due to emotional responses from the mind. To say that somehow an emotional response is stored within a muscle in the physical body is far fetched at the least and if applied as a practice, I see only a bandade solution to the problem and i cannot agree with this. Even if you are having results from doing asana and getting emotional releases, the cause of the blockages will still persist. The mind still stores tension via emotional experiences in the body and this seems to create a pattern of requiring asana to release emotions. I would recommend looking at the source rather than just the effect therefore breaking the cycle.
Personally I'm not surprised to see a western teacher such as Anna Forest selling a system that that doesn't solve your problems and draws you away from being present, if they actually taught a system that dealt with the cause rather than the effect you wouldn't need to keep going to class's and keeping their cash flow going.
(ah yes I'm a bit of a skeptic hehe)
whirled peas
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| Hi Planthelper.
Welcome to the forum. That's a bit of a harsh first post!
I have heard both BKS Iyengar and T.K.V. Desikachar speak about emotions being trapped in the physical body and released through the practise of asana. It is also mentioned in some of Swami Sivananda's writings which are available free on the internet.
Jonathon
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| thanks for the welcome...heee!
well its not the first time I've been called harsh, i prefer to say: i just call it like i see it Jonnie.
I just do what comes naturally...and its seems thats what i do best. :wink:
So i had a peak on the old google for something about emotions being trapped in the body and being released by asana by Swami Sivananda's and only came up with more evidence to back my own theory, this isn't by Sivananda himself but its if writings on this work...its not emotion related unless you see emotion as a dsease which isn't a far cry IMO but its the only thing i found that relates to this current discussion( I'll do more research when i have the time)...heres a snippet.
Any agitation of mind creates a simultaneous agitation in the body, which affects the sensory organs and channels, and hence feeds more negative stimuli back into the mind. This negative cycle results in a grave disturbance of the prana, or vital force. Instead of pervading the body steadily and equally, the prana begins to vibrate in a scattered fashion, at unequal rates and in different directions. The nadis which conduct the pranic energy lose their organization and steady position and 'begin to quiver'. This loss of entropy in the pranic body is then translated into a disease state in the physical body.
Therefore, both the primary diseases of the mind, and the secondary diseases of the body, can be prevented by cultivating purity of mind and thought. That is why, in any therapeutic system, the health of the mind ought to take first priority, it is even more important than physical health. Once you have treated the mind, control over the body develops naturally. 'The body is only a shadow of the mind, the mold prepared by the mind for its expression,' Swami Sivananda reminds us, 'If you can conquer the mind, the body will become your slave.'
http://www.yogamag.net/archives/1981/9sep81/phys.shtml
This only confirms what i am trying to convey in my previous post ,which is: the mind is the source of and also the key to releasing and overcoming emotion.
Personally i think earlier in this discussion people were closer to the truth when looking at woman as the only people experiencing this phenomena. Asana in not a gender defined activity, it is designed to act the same for both sex's, if this is so it should be happening just as common for men otherwise. Ive myself have been in many a situation that under physical stress women have just broke down in tears due an unrelated issue ie: trekking, rock climbing, sports etc. Yoga can be very demanding in this way, especially in a class room situation were people do not want to appear weak in front of others pushing themselves further than they would normally.....but I'm only guessing.
I would appreciate a link to any writing's that talk of emotions being trapped in the physical body then being released via asana as hearsay in not going to convince me, I've come up with nothing after a thorough search of the interweb, my mind is always open to the truth.
whirled peas
Edited by planthelper 2007-06-18 7:07 AM
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All emotional
