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| hi all,
Here is my situation:
I have a guru who lives in Europe, and I live in the US. He's the kind that gives shaktipat, though that's not the only method he will use. I've never met him face-to-face. I've been working with him for years, and still haven;t awakened kundalini. He's put a huge amount of effort into me, and I just keep trying, but haven;t awakened it yet.
As things stand, he's not having any contact with me because he feels I just need to focus on meditation. He's not mad at me. I agree that I need to focus on mediation, but also think I need a little help. So I had an idea: Why not go to a shaktipat guru that I know of, who is only 2 states away, then come back home and just keep going with the first guru's practices and teaching? I proposed this to shaktipat guru #2, and he doesn't have a problem with taking somebody else's student, but I also get the idea he'd rather this be my decision. Guru #2 is the type that gives you shaktipat, then watches over you for about a day (I guess - I have to ask him if the amount of time can vary), then you go back home and do your own practice on your own.
I think for me the question is, is shaktipat just a matter of the guru injecting generic/universal shakti energy into your subtle body, or is it more specific and personal, causing a close personal bond with that specific guru? Or does it depend on the guru? The reason I ask is that, even though I have not really achieved initiation by guru #1 yet, I did have an experience of the divinity within him, and there is a strong bond there.
I don't want to ask guru #1 what he thinks because he's not talking to
me right now. I don't want to ask guru #2 what he thinks because
he would like me to make my own decision. But I don't know enough
about how this works. If I get initiation form guru #2, would it cause
a "psychic" bond with him, a bond that I really want with guru #1?
If it's just a generic energy/shakti thing, I think I wouldn't feel
bound to guru #2. I don;t think guru #2 is looking for everyone who
comes to him for shaktipat, to become his disciple or something, but
for me guru #1 is very important, and I want to keep that relationship
growing.
I don't see why it would be "cheating" on guru #1. I sort of thought
of an analogy.....let's say a professional athlete is temporarily suspended
from the team, and is given things to do to improve enough to be allowed
to play again. In the meantime, neither the coach nor the other team
members talk to him. So...what if during this time the athlete finds a highly
qualified specialist coach on his own, and at his own expense, goes to this
specialist for one day of training? And continues with the stuff he was told to do,
by the main coach? I guess the question is, would the athlete have to
compromise his contract with his team, to be able to get this specialized training?
Why would it have to be that way?
So that's not an exact analogy, but it's sort of close.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts. |
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| personally, i think that you should stick with guru #1's advices and process.
while shaktipat can take any number of forms and guru's vary in their methodologies of teaching, etc, i think that taking the time to work on meditation on your own is a great opportunity for you to grow to become ready for work with guru #1 with whom you already feel a connection.
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| How did you hear about Guru #2?
It is highly unlikely that a reputable Guru who provides shaktipat initiations would either advertise their services or initiate a student who they did not know very well.
Jonathon
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| Wow! You are conflicted no doubt. But, you are also convoluted. Before convolution goes, confliction will stay as affliction! See ===> below.
TylerZambori - 2007-06-19 11:37 AM
hi all,
Here is my situation:
I have a guru who lives in Europe, and I live in the US. He's the kind that gives shaktipat, though that's not the only method he will use. I've never met him face-to-face. I've been working with him for years, and still haven;t awakened kundalini. He's put a huge amount of effort into me, and I just keep trying, but haven;t awakened it yet.
===> The way you are describing above and below, this person is NOT your guru. I think you mean guru = expert. That is not what guru means. But, I have no problem with your using it. Just FYI.
As things stand, he's not having any contact with me because he feels I just need to focus on meditation. He's not mad at me. I agree that I need to focus on mediation, but also think I need a little help. So I had an idea: Why not go to a shaktipat guru that I know of, who is only 2 states away, then come back home and just keep going with the first guru's practices and teaching?
===> This thought indicates that No. 1 is not your guru, but one of the possible teachers.
===> Shaktipat is NOT given by a real guru because Student (wrongly termed as Client in the Western world) wants it or even requests it, but because the Guru himself wants to give it. Shaktipat is not something like purchasing a TV from another shop in one country and then using it your own country to watch local programs.
I proposed this to shaktipat guru #2, and he doesn't have a problem with taking somebody else's student, but I also get the idea he'd rather this be my decision. Guru #2 is the type that gives you shaktipat, then watches over you for about a day (I guess - I have to ask him if the amount of time can vary), then you go back home and do your own practice on your own.
===> In this cage No. 2 is fake (and I do not have a comment yet on No1). What will he watch for one day? What happens if the milk goes bad after one day when it is moved from cold place to Hot place.
I think for me the question is, is shaktipat just a matter of the guru injecting generic/universal shakti energy into your subtle body, or is it more specific and personal, causing a close personal bond with that specific guru? Or does it depend on the guru? The reason I ask is that, even though I have not really achieved initiation by guru #1 yet, I did have an experience of the divinity within him, and there is a strong bond there.
===> It is stupid, in the subject of Shaktipat and such, to seek the subject without knowing it. It is like purchasing a gun without knowing what the gun is. I suggest you clarify your understanding of the following terms as follows:
- FORGET ShaktiPaat
- Clarify what Yoga means to you.
- Clarify what Shakti means to you.
- Clarify what Guru really means.
- Then clarify Shaktipaata.
- Then clarify relation between Guru and Shaktipaata.
- Then you shall know what action you should take.
- The above process can take at least one year or so, depending on average time and energy.
I don't want to ask guru #1 what he thinks because he's not talking to
me right now.
===> That is fantastic.
I don't want to ask guru #2 what he thinks because
he would like me to make my own decision.
===> That is fantastic.
But I don't know enough about how this works. If I get initiation form guru #2, would it cause
a "psychic" bond with him, a bond that I really want with guru #1?
===> See the steps above.
If it's just a generic energy/shakti thing, I think I wouldn't feel
bound to guru #2. I don;t think guru #2 is looking for everyone who
comes to him for shaktipat, to become his disciple or something, but
for me guru #1 is very important, and I want to keep that relationship
growing.
===> Irrelevant.
I don't see why it would be "cheating" on guru #1. I sort of thought
of an analogy.....let's say a professional athlete is temporarily suspended
from the team, and is given things to do to improve enough to be allowed
to play again. In the meantime, neither the coach nor the other team
members talk to him. So...what if during this time the athlete finds a highly
qualified specialist coach on his own, and at his own expense, goes to this
specialist for one day of training? And continues with the stuff he was told to do,
by the main coach? I guess the question is, would the athlete have to
compromise his contract with his team, to be able to get this specialized training?
Why would it have to be that way?
So that's not an exact analogy, but it's sort of close.
===> Correct analogy in wrong way. Spirituality is NOT a sport. But, even then this point is irrelevant.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
===> Wish you all the best, I mean NON-Conflict and NON-Convolution.
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| jonnie - 2007-06-19 12:27 PM
How did you hear about Guru #2?
It is highly unlikely that a reputable Guru who provides shaktipat initiations would either advertise their services or initiate a student who they did not know very well.
Jonathon
He was recommended to my by soembody a long time ago. But yes he does
have a website. It's not like a "Fredrated" commercial.
Reputable? Guru #1 and I hooked up because I read his book and had a
very powerful experience, no warning, no hints, and I didnt; know him from
Adam. Later I noticed he had put a warning on his web site, and I said to
him I thought that was a real good thing that he did that. So he took it off.
Yet I do conisder him to be the real thing, and have had long observation on
which to base this.
I will take zoegirl's advice. ugh-o-rama. Thank you zoegirl.
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| Hi TylerZambori,
Do you have a link to that website?
Thanks,
Jonathon
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| Sure, its:
http://www.sadhanaashram.org/
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| Dear TZ: Sorry, I should not come in again. As for you, I already wrote what I wanted. But, since the other board members shall read this thread, I am writing using your instance:
It is interesting to see that: one is attracted to a Guru through a powerful book, then one has profound no nonsense experience after reading such a book, then one feels that the book author is a master of grade I, and then one still feels like going to another nearby guru, and then one lands up in asking advice to novices in that subject and then decides to act based on advice from a yoga teacher rather than the words of the originally trusted master. Oh God, please do not include the word Guru in English Dictionary, please! |
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| kulkarnn - 2007-06-19 12:44 PM
Wow! You are conflicted no doubt. But, you are also convoluted. Before convolution goes, confliction will stay as affliction! See ===> below.
TylerZambori - 2007-06-19 11:37 AM
hi all,
Here is my situation:
I have a guru who lives in Europe, and I live in the US. He's the kind that gives shaktipat, though that's not the only method he will use. I've never met him face-to-face. I've been working with him for years, and still haven;t awakened kundalini. He's put a huge amount of effort into me, and I just keep trying, but haven;t awakened it yet.
===> The way you are describing above and below, this person is NOT your guru. I think you mean guru = expert. That is not what guru means. But, I have no problem with your using it. Just FYI.[/quote}
Ok, I'll bite. What is a guru?
As things stand, he's not having any contact with me because he feels I just need to focus on meditation. He's not mad at me. I agree that I need to focus on mediation, but also think I need a little help. So I had an idea: Why not go to a shaktipat guru that I know of, who is only 2 states away, then come back home and just keep going with the first guru's practices and teaching?
===> This thought indicates that No. 1 is not your guru, but one of the possible teachers.
explain.
===> Shaktipat is NOT given by a real guru because Student (wrongly termed as Client in the Western world) wants it or even requests it, but because the Guru himself wants to give it. Shaktipat is not something like purchasing a TV from another shop in one country and then using it your own country to watch local programs.
wow you are snarkee. It does not inspire a tendency to confide. Quite ok. on
a public forum you take your chances.
I proposed this to shaktipat guru #2, and he doesn't have a problem with taking somebody else's student, but I also get the idea he'd rather this be my decision. Guru #2 is the type that gives you shaktipat, then watches over you for about a day (I guess - I have to ask him if the amount of time can vary), then you go back home and do your own practice on your own.
===> In this cage No. 2 is fake (and I do not have a comment yet on No1). What will he watch for one day? What happens if the milk goes bad after one day when it is moved from cold place to Hot place.
That's probably a very good point.
I think for me the question is, is shaktipat just a matter of the guru injecting generic/universal shakti energy into your subtle body, or is it more specific and personal, causing a close personal bond with that specific guru? Or does it depend on the guru? The reason I ask is that, even though I have not really achieved initiation by guru #1 yet, I did have an experience of the divinity within him, and there is a strong bond there.
===> It is stupid, in the subject of Shaktipat and such, to seek the subject without knowing it. It is like purchasing a gun without knowing what the gun is.
So how much do *you* know about it?
I suggest you clarify your understanding of the following terms as follows:
- FORGET ShaktiPaat
- Clarify what Yoga means to you.
- Clarify what Shakti means to you.
- Clarify what Guru really means.
- Then clarify Shaktipaata.
- Then clarify relation between Guru and Shaktipaata.
- Then you shall know what action you should take.
- The above process can take at least one year or so, depending on average time and energy.
For one as convoluted as myself, I would end up in an analytic fit and get nowhere.
I don't want to ask guru #1 what he thinks because he's not talking to
me right now.
===> That is fantastic.
I don't want to ask guru #2 what he thinks because
he would like me to make my own decision.
===> That is fantastic.
But I don't know enough about how this works. If I get initiation form guru #2, would it cause
a "psychic" bond with him, a bond that I really want with guru #1?
===> See the steps above.
If it's just a generic energy/shakti thing, I think I wouldn't feel
bound to guru #2. I don;t think guru #2 is looking for everyone who
comes to him for shaktipat, to become his disciple or something, but
for me guru #1 is very important, and I want to keep that relationship
growing.
===> Irrelevant.
I don't see why it would be "cheating" on guru #1. I sort of thought
of an analogy.....let's say a professional athlete is temporarily suspended
from the team, and is given things to do to improve enough to be allowed
to play again. In the meantime, neither the coach nor the other team
members talk to him. So...what if during this time the athlete finds a highly
qualified specialist coach on his own, and at his own expense, goes to this
specialist for one day of training? And continues with the stuff he was told to do,
by the main coach? I guess the question is, would the athlete have to
compromise his contract with his team, to be able to get this specialized training?
Why would it have to be that way?
So that's not an exact analogy, but it's sort of close.
===> Correct analogy in wrong way. Spirituality is NOT a sport. But, even then this point is irrelevant.
you do know what an analogy is, right?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
===> Wish you all the best, I mean NON-Conflict and NON-Convolution.
Thanks, I hope you mean it. Ok, I formatted it as well as I could. |
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| kulkarnn - 2007-06-19 4:20 PM
Dear TZ: Sorry, I should not come in again. As for you, I already wrote what I wanted. But, since the other board members shall read this thread, I am writing using your instance:
It is interesting to see that: one is attracted to a Guru through a powerful book, then one has profound no nonsense experience after reading such a book, then one feels that the book author is a master of grade I, and then one still feels like going to another nearby guru, and then one lands up in asking advice to novices in that subject and then decides to act based on advice from a yoga teacher rather than the words of the originally trusted master. Oh God, please do not include the word Guru in English Dictionary, please!
I would like to note the Neel seems to feel he knows everything about my thinking process.
he doesn't. |
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| Dear TZ: If it satisfies you in anyway, I publicly apologize for misunderstanding your thinking process. However, what I wrote is a direct translation of your posts. And, since I observed this not only in your case, but on several occassions, I felt a need to make the statement I did last. My statements to you still stand as they are directed to you. Once you spend sufficient time with the path you are going, you shall remember my words for sure.
TylerZambori - 2007-06-19 8:09 PM
kulkarnn - 2007-06-19 4:20 PM
Dear TZ: Sorry, I should not come in again. As for you, I already wrote what I wanted. But, since the other board members shall read this thread, I am writing using your instance:
It is interesting to see that: one is attracted to a Guru through a powerful book, then one has profound no nonsense experience after reading such a book, then one feels that the book author is a master of grade I, and then one still feels like going to another nearby guru, and then one lands up in asking advice to novices in that subject and then decides to act based on advice from a yoga teacher rather than the words of the originally trusted master. Oh God, please do not include the word Guru in English Dictionary, please!
I would like to note the Neel seems to feel he knows everything about my thinking process.
he doesn't. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
    
| Tyler - Neel doesn't need me to explain his experience or qualifications, so I won't. Let's just say that he knows what he is talking about.
I am not fully versed in the ways of gurus and things regarding meditation, however I do know that a true guru or even a serious teacher, will set a student challenges that are, well..., challenging. They are never easy and typically are designed to push your particular buttons and expose your weaknesses. Sounds like your teacher has found yours!
I understand the sports analogy. More likely you are in a situation of an individual athlete than a team member - a runner or skater who works one on one with a coach. If that coach gives his runner a task and sends them away in the off season to work on it, and the runner then turns to another coach during that time, the original coach will NOT take it kindly.
We are very impatient in the west. We need to learn to do the work we need to do.  |
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| tourist - 2007-06-20 10:28 AM
Tyler - Neel doesn't need me to explain his experience or qualifications, so I won't. Let's just say that he knows what he is talking about.
He didn't answer my questions, and I looked at his resume on his web site.
I can't see that he knows about anything other than some asana exercises,
frankly.
I am not fully versed in the ways of gurus and things regarding meditation, however I do know that a true guru or even a serious teacher, will set a student challenges that are, well..., challenging. They are never easy and typically are designed to push your particular buttons and expose your weaknesses. Sounds like your teacher has found yours!
I understand the sports analogy. More likely you are in a situation of an individual athlete than a team member - a runner or skater who works one on one with a coach.
Yes, that's probably a better illustration.
We are very impatient in the west. We need to learn to do the work we need to do.
I don't disagree. Thank you, I also found another yoga forum with people on
there with very good insight. |
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Veteran
Posts: 101
| Seems like Neel also found TZ's buttons
Tw |
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| tweeva - 2007-06-20 4:45 PM
Seems like Neel also found TZ's buttons
Tw
yes, that makes him a guru. 
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| TylerZambori - 2007-06-19 10:37 AM
hi all,
Here is my situation:
I have a guru who lives in Europe, and I live in the US. He's the kind that gives shaktipat, though that's not the only method he will use. I've never met him face-to-face. I've been working with him for years, and still haven;t awakened kundalini. He's put a huge amount of effort into me, and I just keep trying, but haven;t awakened it yet.
As things stand, he's not having any contact with me because he feels I just need to focus on meditation. He's not mad at me. I agree that I need to focus on mediation, but also think I need a little help. So I had an idea: Why not go to a shaktipat guru that I know of, who is only 2 states away, then come back home and just keep going with the first guru's practices and teaching? I proposed this to shaktipat guru #2, and he doesn't have a problem with taking somebody else's student, but I also get the idea he'd rather this be my decision. Guru #2 is the type that gives you shaktipat, then watches over you for about a day (I guess - I have to ask him if the amount of time can vary), then you go back home and do your own practice on your own.
I think for me the question is, is shaktipat just a matter of the guru injecting generic/universal shakti energy into your subtle body, or is it more specific and personal, causing a close personal bond with that specific guru? Or does it depend on the guru? The reason I ask is that, even though I have not really achieved initiation by guru #1 yet, I did have an experience of the divinity within him, and there is a strong bond there.
I don't want to ask guru #1 what he thinks because he's not talking to
me right now. I don't want to ask guru #2 what he thinks because
he would like me to make my own decision. But I don't know enough
about how this works. If I get initiation form guru #2, would it cause
a "psychic" bond with him, a bond that I really want with guru #1?
If it's just a generic energy/shakti thing, I think I wouldn't feel
bound to guru #2. I don;t think guru #2 is looking for everyone who
comes to him for shaktipat, to become his disciple or something, but
for me guru #1 is very important, and I want to keep that relationship
growing.
I don't see why it would be "cheating" on guru #1. I sort of thought
of an analogy.....let's say a professional athlete is temporarily suspended
from the team, and is given things to do to improve enough to be allowed
to play again. In the meantime, neither the coach nor the other team
members talk to him. So...what if during this time the athlete finds a highly
qualified specialist coach on his own, and at his own expense, goes to this
specialist for one day of training? And continues with the stuff he was told to do,
by the main coach? I guess the question is, would the athlete have to
compromise his contract with his team, to be able to get this specialized training?
Why would it have to be that way?
So that's not an exact analogy, but it's sort of close.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Hi,
Since you asked for thoughts here they are...
1. I would compare the scenario with an example in medicine. Assume that you are suffering from a disease and you wish to get well soon. So you decided to visit an Ayurveda (or Homeopath) doctor. The doctor prescribes you medicines and other guidelines such as correcting life style etc. based on his line of practice (Ayurveda). You then realize that his medicines and recommendations are real good but they will require more initial time and efforts. You being eager to get cured decide to go to an allopathic doctor because you believe that allopathy will bring you quick relief. Now you end up having two sets of medicines - Ayurvedic and Allopathic. As you see these two "pathies" can contradict each other. For example Ayurveda may believe in removing impurities in natural way whereas allopathy may believe in suppressing them or removing them via artificial means. So the point is that there can be contradictions between teachings of two experts and my personal advice would be to choose one teacher.
(Declaimer: I am not a doctor so don't take my above comparison in literal sense. I gave the example just for the sake of making my point clear.)
2. Shaktipata can vary from Guru to Guru. Guru first understands the mind-body constitution of the desciple and then induces the Shakti accordingly. For example some Guru may just awaken your Pranamaya Kosha and not Kundalini whereas some other may awaken your Kundalini also. It also depends on the abilities of the Guru.
3. Though the universal Shakti is the same its personal manifestation can be different. For example energy in electric bulb and energy in steam are both energies but they are manifesting in different ways.
4. You need to give a serious thought as to whether your mind-body equipment is prepared for receiving Shaktipata. After awakening of Kundalini very strange seeming experience may come to you. e.g. automatic movements of body parts, eyes, Hearing various sounds, mood changes, feeling void and many others. If you are not prepared for such symptoms then it can lead to tough situation and Guru 1 may not be able to help you much because he didn't awakened your Kundalini. Even if he can you need to then disclose him that you received Shaktipata from Guru 2. At this point he may take this act as dishonesty.
5. In our life our mother, father and Guru are always ONE. Occasionally your Guru may refer you to some other Guru (typically his own Guru or Guru Bandhu) but that is for the sake of some specific reason and purpose. We may like teachings of many but it is ONE who is our true Guru and dispels our darkness of ignorance.
Of course these are my thoughts and in no way I expect you or anybody else to agree with them.
Peace.
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| Hi TZ,
I think everyone can be our guru. If we react because of something someone says to us, to me, I would take it as an opportunity to learn about myself and what i react to and why. It's a gift when we react to something, a chance to look within...after all it's not the 'outside ' making us react, it is an internal reaction within our own body/mind which someone else may not necessarily react to in the same way.
Why not stay with this forum and use it as another means to look at your reactions, and learn about your particular samskaras and practice not buying into the reaction?
This is yoga.
Blessings,
Soul |
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Veteran
Posts: 101
| TylerZambori - 2007-06-19 11:46 PM
tweeva - 2007-06-20 4:45 PM
Seems like Neel also found TZ's buttons
Tw
yes, that makes him a guru.
Yes, indeed.
It seems you acknowledge that Neel pushed your buttons. So, he might very well become a Guru for you. But since you already have one, you should talk about this with nr. 1. There's no room for 2 unless they cooperate.
Tw |
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Veteran
Posts: 101
| souljourney108 - 2007-06-19 5:44 AM
Hi TZ,
I think everyone can be our guru. If we react because of something someone says to us, to me, I would take it as an opportunity to learn about myself and what i react to and why. It's a gift when we react to something, a chance to look within...after all it's not the 'outside ' making us react, it is an internal reaction within our own body/mind which someone else may not necessarily react to in the same way.
I agree, but would like to extend this a little bit further. Not only everyone, but the universe itself can become our guru.
It seems that TZ is searching for a Guru, while he allready found him.
Tw
Edited by tweeva 2007-06-21 4:15 AM
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Conflicting initiations?
