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| Is it selfish to be limiting in who you associate with? What about people who really need help, or a helping hand and aren't getting it because of other issues? What about people who have had a really bad start in life, and are really messed up because of it? Would you help a meth-head if you knew that they had had a really rough life, right from the start? |
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| i don't think it's problematic to limit those with whom you associate.
but i consider 'associating' general, continual socialization, whereas the other elements you described, i consider something different.
when i'm 'helping someone out' in that way (ie, helping out a meth addict as much as i can--and i would, whether they had a tough upbringing or not), i do not feel that i'm in a symmetrical relationship with them, and therefore it's not really "associating" in the sense of hanging out or 'being friends with' that person.
but, i do believe that i have a responsibility to treat every person with respect and dignity--as well as making appropriate boundaries--which might include helping individuals of various origins (positive and negative). |
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| You can help others only if you are sure you have definitely something you can help with. Only in that respect you can help others. Not in each thing. If you are a Math guru like Ollie, you can help in Math, not in Sanskrit.
Also, unless you love yourself and take care of yourself, you can not love others and take care of them.
Love thy neighbours as you love yourself.
GreenJello - 2007-08-01 2:16 PM
Is it selfish to be limiting in who you associate with? What about people who really need help, or a helping hand and aren't getting it because of other issues? What about people who have had a really bad start in life, and are really messed up because of it? Would you help a meth-head if you knew that they had had a really rough life, right from the start? |
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| kulkarnn - 2007-08-01 3:41 PM
Also, unless you love yourself and take care of yourself, you can not love others and take care of them.
Love thy neighbours as you love yourself.
Yeah, I think that's the answer to the question. Some people and situations are too toxic, and threaten our own lives and selves. |
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| there's this fella that I see every day when I drive home from work,
he looks homeless
he always is trying to hitch a ride.
One day I gave him a ride. He's a drunk, he wets his pants and smells really bad, and he made my car smell bad.
I don't give him a ride anymore. Oh, by the way, he asked if I could drop him off at the liquor store.
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| yeah, neel said it better than i did. same idea though--that is, that's what i was trying to say.  |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Ah yes, Good Association is very important. The great Swami's really emphasize this in all the teachings. Good Association is critical and most necessary for any yoga practice. We do have choices. Then we have more choices...
which sorda reminds me of what I've been going through the last couple of months with my ex-Mother-in-law. Her son is a self-centered jerk, who spent all of her money. When it came down to the nitty gritty end, she basically went from a Millionnaire to a poor person, with nothing...no car, no money, bill collectors calling, cars being repossed, the whole nightmare. What was even more interesting, ex-husband lost everything at the same time including another wife.
So, there was NO one that would help them. They were literally depleted and had no transportation...nothing. The bottom line.... I was the only person that was able to do anything for these people, including going to another state to pick up her son, just so he could be there and make family decisions to get his Mother placed in a nursing home. It was the saddest thing to observe, but at the same time....it was karma stuff all the way!!!
This woman was set for life, had all the money she ever needed, and was highly educated. She went to school with Rosalyn Carter. She was an educator, a Librarian, including the Librarian for the State School system. She was an incredible person with an incredible background. But towards the end, things got really bad, her entire life turned around and she ended up giving her son everything she had. He manipulated and did everything to get every dime she owned, even while we were in the hospital he depleted her bank account for his needs. She did loose her mind in the end, which had a lot to do with her demise. I found this woman roaming the streets of her town 2 months ago. Her housekeeper (who had not been paid for over a year's worth of service, and was buying her groceries) begged me to come see to her because no one in her family would. It was incredible. This was a woman who just lost her husband last July. Who sacrificed years to keep her husband at home, nursed and cared for him, so he didn't have to die in a hospital/nursing home situation with machines and needles keeping his body alive.
So. KNOWING what I was going to have to deal with...and believe me it was like going into the hell realm, I decided to lend my help. How could I turn my back on them?? My son's Grandmother, the woman who supported and encouraged me all through my life, even though I went through a nasty divorce with her son. Took care of my son and put him through a private school so he could be educated too. Yea, she too could be a pain in the a$$ sometimes too, but aren't all MIL's??
After spending only a month and a half in the nursing home, last week, she was dying in the hospital. She lost her will to live. I've never seen anyone deteriorate that quickly before...especially since I went through hell previously trying to get a doctor to FIND a medical reason so we could put her in the nursing home, which was not an easy task at all. I had to go once again to be with her so that she could die in peace. It was not easy, but I did it anyway. I dealt with all the BS from all sorts of angles. From emotional family members who could not accept her dying, from the son who wanted to keep her on these machines and meds that only kept her body alive, while her soul was trying to leave this earth. I dealt with the fact that I was the ex-wife, I dealt with the nice people (thank god for them) and I dealt with her son and brother who refused to come be with her, even though she was barely clinging on...waiting for them to say good bye to her. It was an interesting experience to say the least. Looking back, I would not have done it any different. I was so glad I was able to assist and just basically - be there, even though it was totally un-pleasant. Sometimes it really helps to get out of ourselves and be of service to humanity. It's also good to be able to distinguish between giving without expectations and conditional love versus the do I do this because I'm going to gain something?? or I want to change the outcome and force someone to be like me, yadda yadda. I just gave myself, just like the person who gave to me. It was a good thing. I literally had nothing to gain. I didn't have to do anything...I could of stayed here in the mountains, saved my $$, and done Yoga Asana's every day. I would not of had to sleep in upright chairs, be awakened by loud and obnoxious nurses, much less be mistreated by some of them...most were nice, some were absolutely not...especially the ones who had a biased attitude toward ex-wives, even though they had not a clue about what the exact situation was. Last but not least, deal with the man who I thought was evil at one time in my life and had not been around for over 18 years...then to be thrown in the same room with him in a hospital for weeks, chouffering him around in my car - spending my money and time. I could go on and on about all the negatives, but that doesn't matter. I was able to rise above it all and do my job, which was to be present. Like I said earlier last month in a post....It's a great way to measure yourself when you throw yourself back into life and deal with life and circumstances from a yogic perspective. All my recent activity has been by my choice. I know I made the right choice, even though at times it really, really, really sucked on so many levels.
My friend, my ex-Mom in law died yesterday, may she rest in peace. May whatever contribution I made to her life and whatever I was able to give period - I hope that I was able to bring her a tiny smidgen of peace...because that is all I wanted for her.
Om Shanti Shanti Shanti
Edited by Cyndi 2007-08-01 9:50 PM
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| Sutra I:33 |
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| cyndi:
i had wondered wha tyou were up to (since you weren't on the boards). i'm sorry that it was such a tough time, and i'm sorry for your loss.
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| Cyndi - 2007-08-01 9:24 PM
Ah yes, Good Association is very important. The great Swami's really emphasize this in all the teachings. Good Association is critical and most necessary for any yoga practice. We do have choices. Then we have more choices...
True. And nobody is good all the time, we all have our good and bad moments.
Right now a friend of mine is going through something similar to what you described Cyndi. He's one of three brothers, the other two have some pretty bad problems. The oldest brother is a hardened alcohol, a liar, and a thief. The other brother is essentially a head case due to an auto accident a number of years back. Their mother was essentially enabling the alcoholic, and coddling the other brother for a number of years. She passed on about a year ago, and dealing with the estate, and other issues has really been eating my friend alive. The first brother has essentailly stolen all the money from the estate, and is now harrassing my friend, since he's in the process of getting him sent to jail. The second brother isn't much better off, since he wants to come live with my friend, which would be a constant, unending drain on resources he really doesn't have. So my friend is off balance, out of sorts, and very difficult to deal with at times.
I've got another friend who's got what appear to be some mental health issues, in addition to dealing with some of the repercussions of her actions. Right now she's struggling with a raising a single child alone, who has some of her same mental health issues, while dealing with a DUI charge, moving, and some money issues as a result of both.
In both cases I really want to be able to support my friends. In the first case I suspect that things will clear up, but probably not quickly, or smoothly. In the second case, I suspect that the problems are much more systemic, and likely to continue in one way or another. I'd like to help her, and I've been giving her some support, but my own resources only go so far, and I'm afraid to be the person who swims out to save the drowning person, only to be sucked down themselves. I also have issues with trusting this person, because they've burnt me before in various ways.
So I guess I feel like it's bit selfish of me to want to disassociate myself from these people. In both cases they're dealing with issues that have been a long time coming. In the first case, my friend really has done quite a bit to avoid the problem, but he's still tied to the tracks with a train on the way. He's also been a very good friend to me, and very supportive when I've had issues. Honestly, I really don't want to disassociate myself from him, though I have been spending less time with him.
In the second case, I feel like she has more control over the situation, but I'm not entirely sure, due to the mental health issues. It seems like she's brought a lot of it on herself, and she's like to continue doing so. She also has less people to turn to, which makes it harder to tell her that I can't really support her. Finally, I feel like I'm unlikely to get support from her in return, but it's hard to say, since I really don't have any serious issues that I'm attempting to deal with. I've also known her a much shorter period of time, so I could be totally misreading the situation.
Anyway, thanks for sharing your struggle Cyndi, it's always good to know that we're not the only people struggling with various issues. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | GJ,
It's only a struggle if we allow it to be a struggle. As Yoga aspirants, we are intelligent enough to know what this means. Remember my quote.."Everything works if you let it". My recent dealings with my ex-family-in-law was really not my struggle, it was their struggle. I was just there to observe, witness and be of assistance to them. That's all. Watching it all unfold in front of your eyes, and realizing you are helpless and change them or the situation, is quite interesting. In my recent case, I was able to throw in words of wisdom here and there, which I feel contributed to their situation and somehow, enabled them to make better decisions while things were unfolding. However, not every time did they listen to me and I just had to sit back and watch them do dumb things. It's kinda like being Harry Potter and not being able to do magic around the muggles or outside of Hogwarts, 
Anyway, If you can go through your life and not be a part of the problem, but the solution, and can see that for yourself, then I would say you've done quite well. What that entails firstly is that you yourself have to become selfless and have your ego in check...situations such as this will definitely challenge you in the Ego department. Then you have to become detached from the outcome and detached from the people that you are dealing with. It's a way of being present and showing up to get the job done and not getting directly involved with the emotional aspects and the dramas. Not everybody can do this. God knows I've had my challenges on this journey of life. It's part of the practice and believe me it's dealing with the situation as an OBSERVER and WITNESS...not a direct participant in the drama aspect. You are only a participant in what you choose to be. Being able to distinguish between the two while the drama is unfolding, is the major challenge. I can't tell you how many times I've had to walk away from conversations, keep my mouth shut (you know how hard that is for someone like me ) and basically just return back to the situation with my mind free and clear of any residue from whatever transpired or the ongoing play of drama and karma working itself out.
The other side of this is this - you can't help others unless your own house is in order. If you start to help someone and realize that your gonna be totally drained from it and it's going to affect your life, then you may not be the person to help. I truly believe that some situations present themselves to us so that we can learn how to deal with people and situations. There's always a higher Divine plan taking place. One of the keys that I believe contributes to a successful outcome is overcoming attachments to the outcome and situation. Being present is alot to ask the average person, especially since most people don't have any idea what that truly means. For my own practice, I am constantly asking and analysing what that means to me. Most of the time, it requires me to dig so much deeper, which is what it's all about.
A good role model for these situations is Mother Theresa. She is my idol. When I'm faced with these situations, I always review her life and how she gave so much. It is through giving that we are able to receive. My guru told me once, make all the money you want, do everything you want to do...but, give it all away, don't keep it. My husband on the other hand taught me something else about that. He used to get really mad at me because I'm always broke. He says I give too much away. So, he's teaching me how to make all the money I want, give freely and still be able to keep some. Talk about another dimension of my yoga practice. It's fun though, But, one things for certain, I can't take my money with me and If I can be of service, that's even better!
Also, I have a choice where I want to put my energy and time. I try to make really good choices. Choosing your battles wisely is an art too. Sometimes you just have to get your feet wet to know what that is all about. It's like doing an asana to the area of discomfort and pain....you go to where your body is at today and honor that. Same thing applies to external situations. As you continue, you find you can go deeper and deeper.
Edited by Cyndi 2007-08-02 1:08 PM
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| Cyndi - 2007-08-02 12:40 PM
However, not every time did they listen to me and I just had to sit back and watch them do dumb things. It's kinda like being Harry Potter and not being able to do magic around the muggles or outside of Hogwarts,
LOL! Yeah, I really hate to have people screw up their lives doing dumb stuff...
The other side of this is this - you can't help others unless your own house is in order. If you start to help someone and realize that your gonna be totally drained from it and it's going to affect your life, then you may not be the person to help.
Which I guess is the other side of things. I'm never going to have everything perfect at home. It's just not going to happen. So it's an interesting balancing act to determine how much help you can give. It gets worse when a lot of this tends to be done on an emergency basis. If it was a little less random, then it would be easy to budget time, and attention to it, just like anything else. So let's say I help some here or there, and the next day there's some sort of crisis, or the next day. At some point I have to say stop, no more. 'Course that's usually at the worse part of whatever is going on, which just makes me feel guilty, because I feel like I'm abandoning somebody in a really rough spot.
I truly believe that some situations present themselves to us so that we can learn how to deal with people and situations. There's always a higher Divine plan taking place.
True.
My guru told me once, make all the money you want, do everything you want to do...but, give it all away, don't keep it. My husband on the other hand taught me something else about that. He used to get really mad at me because I'm always broke. He says I give too much away. So, he's teaching me how to make all the money I want, give freely and still be able to keep some.
Yes, which goes back to the issue of balance doesn't it? |
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| eagle pose, then. |
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Association
