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| Hello everyone, this is my first post on this forum. I am a novice at yoga and welcome all input to my confusion.
Here is my story:
I am at a unique place in my life where I am in the midst of many tremendous changes. I have been blessed to be awakened to my own power to change---and I have embraced it. Part of this fundamental change is body. I used to be over 80 lbs. heavier than I am now and I still have more weight to drop. Part of this change is mind & spirit. I have played wishy-washy with my spirituality throughout my life and am finally starting to embrace some of the ideals of Buddhism. Though I am not yet educated enough to feel confident in calling myself Buddhist, I seem to be heading down that path.
There are many other changes in my life as well, but these two facets are what leaves me confused.
In losing weight, diet and exercise have been at the forefront of my mind and I have put alot of energy into gym time. I began taking gym-classroom yoga (very generic), but I thoroughly enjoyed the feelings that it stirred within me. So, I started to explore other yoga options. (And I started feeling like a hamster on a wheel on the cardio machines in the gym which were beginning to stir up feelings of angst and resentment...and I don't feel that is healthy) In the start of my exploration, I signed up for a "beginners yoga" series at a local studio. I am not happy with this class. I distrust the instructor---I know she knows more than I (and more than my "gym yoga" teachers), so I cannot truly explain this feeling. Additionally, I started taking "hot yoga" classes at a second studio. I feel like I get a fantastic workout here---but I don't get the spiritual food I am longing for. Finally, I took a restorative yoga class at a third studio this past weekend and I immediately felt at peace with the surroundings and knew I could go back there and feel contented.
My confusion---I don't quite know how to pinpoint what it is I am seeking. All I seem to know is what I DON'T want when I am in the midst of it. Also, I am looking for spiritual food as well as something that will help to return my body to the state in which it was meant to be---strong, lean, and balanced. The studio that I felt "at home" in offers meditation, Iyengar, Ashtanga, Vinyasa, Jivamukti, and Restorative classes. Am I on a decent path if I continue with "hot yoga" for the body workout it gives me, and join the third studio for all else? And, if I do that---what yoga style should I start with?
I am sorry if I am long-winded. But I am thoroughly confused.
Thank you, again, in advance, for any wisdom you may offer.
- Jennifer |
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| Welcome to yoga and the forums Jennifer! I know exactly what you're saying (I think) and commend your approach and lucid insights as you go about finding the right teacher.
I could give you a lot of trite encouragement like, "keep searching," yoga is a journey," advice like that. Unfortunately, in my experience, they happen to be true. Study, reasearch, sample and keep that inqisitive outlook to find what's right for you.
I wasn't as wise as you when I began--it was Bikram and everything else was for wussies. Took me nearly two years to find out there are so many wonderful options. Five years later and I keep making similar discoveries.
You're doing more than fine lady and I believe are a model to emulate for others beginning their yoga trek.
Manaste,
Bruce |
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| I think it was Iyengar who said there's no fundamental difference among the lines of yoga as they all potentially lead to the same objective. Speaking of whom, Iyengar is a good place to start, as it provides a good foundation for a safer, more effective practice in any line of yoga you may want to try later.
Still, you should try as many styles as you can and decide for yourself. Except maybe Ashtanga, unless you're Madonna. It's very probable you won't stick to a single style over the long run, anyway.
I see no reason why you shouldn't use your Hot Yoga class as a workout session as long as you don't announce it to the teachers and students there. I've seen people in yoga classes proclaim they are there merely for the workout and couldn't help but feel a bit insulted. But that's me. |
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| Jen:
welcome to the boards! welcome to yoga! and congratulations on your weight loss! 
this is a bit of a "long way' response, but it does get to the same answer as bruce and tm which was essentially to keep experimenting. 
in the yoga tradition, there are these meditation practices called Sat Yam and Sat Nam. essentially, you repeat them with the breath. most people choose one or the other. Sat yam means "truth" and also "i am this" and Sat Nam means "not true" and "i am not this."
i have discovered that different people respond to different ones. i find that i do much better with an "i am this" experience. I figure out what i am, and then i find what fits at that 'known' level. my husband is the opposite. it's easier for him to figure out, once he's experienced something, that it's "not" for him, even though he doesn't really know what he's looking for.
it's totally ok that this happens. people just approach things differently. so, you're definitely doing something "right" by trying things and then figuring out that something is not for you.
it's also ok to shop around a lot and keep trying new things until it fits. if you like hot yoga, then keep doing it. if you like the other studio for another reason, then keep doing that. and, you can do both--nothing says you can't. unless you say you can't anyway.
beyond this, it looks like the place you like most offers a variety of classes--meditation, Iyengar, Ashtanga, Vinyasa, Jivamukti, and Restorative classes. i would recommend trying these, once your pass for hot yoga wears out (once you're finished with the classes you've paid for). you will discover that all of these other styles are quite vigorous and make for good work outs.
i would also recommend that you take that meditation class. meditation is phenomenal. |
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| Hello Jennifer.
While the samplings of styles, studios, teachers, and practices has a sound benefit (perhaps many) confusion is one of the pitfalls of studying or practicing in many styles. This can be pragmatic as one teacher tells to to compress this while another tells you to lengthen it. Or it can be energetic as one place "feels" welcoming while another just seems like "not the right place for you". It can, of course, also be pragmatic AND energetic.
I cannot tell you if the path you are on is a good one or a right one. It is only your own heart center that can confirm that. So you will need to ttrust your inner feelings a bit and perhaps choose one or the other of this or that until you've self-educated in the practice to the point where you can be more discerning.
Initial choices may be for life or they may be temporary.
Each person here will likely have their practice of "preference" and to advocate only that to you based on my body, my heart, my practice, would be lacking integrity.
It sounds as though you've got a preference. Explore it and try to reduce the diversity of styles. While all gods lead to god, a focus and direction allow for clarity and groundedness. |
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| Thank you, everyone, for your replies. I suppose I have been mostly uncertain about my sense of what I don't want and not really having a firm understanding of what I do want. You have made it clear that is one way to find my path---and that, perhaps, I am doing something right!
I will continue to search, and I will continue to use the time I spend in the "hot yoga" studio as a wonderful yogic approach to cardiovascular exercise. But I will search for the depth I need elsewhere.
I tried yet another yoga studio last evening. I went with an open heart and an open mind, and I enjoyed the energy in the room---so I may try another class there soon. I will also be going back this week for a second time to the one studio that was immediately welcoming.
Thank you, again, and I am sure I will come back to ask more questions. I am filled with them! |
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| JenTow - 2007-08-21 12:41 PM
I am sorry if I am long-winded. But I am thoroughly confused.
Thank you, again, in advance, for any wisdom you may offer.
- Jennifer
Considering what you wrote and assuming that it is the fact, this is my suggestion:
- Meet a real Buddhist Monk Teacher who is well known and who can be trusted.
- Take instruction
- And, follow it verbatim
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| Hi Jen,
I got to say that I did not share that same experience in hot yoga as you described. Yes, there is that "work out" feel to this particular form of hatha yoga but I think large of it also depends on how instructors are in class and how other people in that class seem to take it(especially for us beginners). In my studio, despite me jumping into yoga not knowing anything but only feeling the work out aspect of it in the first couple classes, the calming experience on mind was enough for me to return. Not only that studio environment alone was very much community like, and over period of time after trying couple different teachers some seem to introduce more of spiritual aspect than others. I think also no matter what form of hatha yoga you are taking it's how you approach the class(which I'm constantly learning in different ways, espcially with my late guilt on not being able to make it to the practice for the day). As far as concentration and meditation aspect within the class time goes, it's hard and takes time and patience.
Whew, I sound like an expert. I'm NOT.
I sound like I'm defending hot yoga. Maybe I am. 
Edited by tabula_rasa 2007-08-24 12:08 AM
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| zoebird - 2007-08-21 10:37 AM
Jen:
welcome to the boards! welcome to yoga! and congratulations on your weight loss!
this is a bit of a "long way' response, but it does get to the same answer as bruce and tm which was essentially to keep experimenting.
in the yoga tradition, there are these meditation practices called Sat Yam and Sat Nam. essentially, you repeat them with the breath. most people choose one or the other. Sat yam means "truth" and also "i am this" and Sat Nam means "not true" and "i am not this."
i have discovered that different people respond to different ones. i find that i do much better with an "i am this" experience. I figure out what i am, and then i find what fits at that 'known' level. my husband is the opposite. it's easier for him to figure out, once he's experienced something, that it's "not" for him, even though he doesn't really know what he's looking for.
it's totally ok that this happens. people just approach things differently. so, you're definitely doing something "right" by trying things and then figuring out that something is not for you.
it's also ok to shop around a lot and keep trying new things until it fits. if you like hot yoga, then keep doing it. if you like the other studio for another reason, then keep doing that. and, you can do both--nothing says you can't. unless you say you can't anyway.
beyond this, it looks like the place you like most offers a variety of classes--meditation, Iyengar, Ashtanga, Vinyasa, Jivamukti, and Restorative classes. i would recommend trying these, once your pass for hot yoga wears out (once you're finished with the classes you've paid for ). you will discover that all of these other styles are quite vigorous and make for good work outs.
i would also recommend that you take that meditation class. meditation is phenomenal.
Zoe bird, your talk of sat yam and sat nam meditation reminds me of discussion of "the secret" in the message board whilte back. Anyways, would you share more about sat yam meditation? How to practice? I tried to do yahoo or wiki search, but I'm afraid yahoo search came up with some sort of computer program. |
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| It's a shame you had such a bad experience to begin with. I started with Sivananda but hit a wall in my development so I switched to Iyengar which as been amazingly good for me, however I missed some of the more spiritual practises as these cut in at a later stage in your yogic development in Iyengar than in some other traditions. I am currently taking a Satyamvida course of classes to meet this need.
I see no real problem in mixing traditions whilst you find that which is best for you, however, as said above, you do have to be very concious of the differences in asana practise. Iyengar and Satyamvida yogas sit well together for me as asana work is minimal in Satyamvida so I get little conflict over remembering what/how to do what in each class. Iyengar meets my need to quiten and relax my body whilst the Satyamvida takes care of my heart :-)
In would suggest that for a (relative) newbie, it may be better to stick to one tradition at a time (e.g. a course in A, then a cource in B) rather than running them in parallel as I'm doing.
Fee
Edited by Orbilia 2007-08-24 6:51 AM
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| I am also new to yoga and going through similar dilemma. I have moved around in classes looking for what is “ right for me”. I have settled on Anusara for the technical and physical aspect of asana but the spiritual side is not as evident as I would like. I take a Tri-yoga class that is very spiritual and covers that aspect very nicely. I then combine the two in my home practice and daily life to make it my own.
Is there anything wrong with this approach? I hear that yoga is a constantly evolving practice and will change with time as our needs and challenges develop. Can we take what we learn and develop our practice to meet these daily needs and challenges as we grow and change? Is this how new styles are constantly surfacing, because someone has developed there own style, took it to the next level, and bought it forward to public awareness for anyone who agrees on that particular approach? Any insight and comments would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike
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Expert Yogi
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| Hector - your approach sounds great  I had heard that Anusara was very spiritual - or at least, very "heart centered" so I am interested to hear your take on it. |
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| Tourist-I contemplated what you said and do believe Anusara is more spiritual than I mentioned. My teacher does mention to practice from inside out and constantly brings our attention inward with “ how does that feel.” We connect to ourselves deeply before each class and meditate at the end.
Since I am new to yoga and especially this technical style, I spend more time in my head concentrating on perfecting postures, as this is part of this style. I like the “principals of alignment” that they often refer to, because small adjustments in my postures make a big difference in how much I feel. With time and practice as I perfect my techniques and it becomes more natural, I feel it will help me go deeper into my practice. I like that you question what I wrote because it makes me look inward and deeper into what I was trying to say. I have much to learn but am greatly encouraged with everything so far and look forward to the path I am on in my new lifestyle.
Mike
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| tabula rasa:
i can, just not at the present. i will soon though. remind me. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Thanks Mike - the reason I ask is because I practice and teach Iyengar yoga, which is a strong influence on Anusara. I have often heard people say that Iyengar is "non spiritual" for similar reasons. I have found though, that once I got past that initial time of being in my head a lot the deeper meanings of the practice became clear. In some ways I think it is a good style for people who are analytical and tend t go at things intellectually. Once we learn that it really cannot all e done "up there" we can truly let go and do what needs to be done. Some of the boot camp styles do that by pushing physically and that never would have worked for me. |
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| i truly believe that a lot of the spiritual aspects can't be taught, they have to be experienced. you can teach a lot of it, but ultimately, it is what is unsaid that is most powerful. it is what is experienced that is most transformative.
and, these teachings are often experienced through conscious alignment and consistent practice. this is why i have such an emphasis on alignment.
it not just aligns the body for good opening, nor does that level attention simple develop concentration, but the energy body is aligned and opened, and channels of prana between the spirit self and all other koshas are opened and experience of that spiritual self is broadened.
and that, then, is transfered into everyday life.
and so much, so much simply unsaid! |
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| I often describe Iyengar to non-yogis as being the tradition perfect for the anal retentive OCD-freak in your life, Tourist :-
Fee |
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| Zoebird-I totally agree about the spiritual side of yoga needing to be experienced. Learning this side from teachers may help someone find a method that they connect with better, but this is where I believe home practice comes into play, because classes can’t allow the time needed for meditation to truly sink in. I have meditated much longer than practicing yoga, and many beliefs I had have only been confirmed and deepened. This makes the yogic path much easier for me. It has added the mind/body connection that I hadn’t achieved before.
My question is about alignment and deepening the experience. Are you saying that improving your asana practice helps you connect better? It’s confusing to me because some people say yoga is not about the physical side, but that statement makes me wonder why some postures are so advanced and strength oriented. Try doing a handstand with weak shoulders and arms or balancing poses with weak legs and abdomens. If I am on track, will yoga postures alone build the strength to perform these more advanced asanas or is extra exercise/weight lifting required to perform these advanced postures? Any clarification appreciated
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| Hector - 2007-08-29 3:55 PM
My question is about alignment and deepening the experience. Are you saying that improving your asana practice helps you connect better? It’s confusing to me because some people say yoga is not about the physical side, but that statement makes me wonder why some postures are so advanced and strength oriented. Try doing a handstand with weak shoulders and arms or balancing poses with weak legs and abdomens. If I am on track, will yoga postures alone build the strength to perform these more advanced asanas or is extra exercise/weight lifting required to perform these advanced postures? Any clarification appreciated
The differences or seperation between physical, mental and spiritual are products of the mind (products of conditioning) not independent realities. There is no physical you seperate from the mental you or the spiritual you. There is only you. The point of asana is to build health, bringing harmony and balance between the body, mind and spirit. Without balance, I think that all other yogic pursuits are counter-productive. You really don't need exotic or difficult poses to develop the union of body, mind and spirit. You do need a healthy practice that is done with awareness on a regular basis. It will, over time, develop all the strength that you need.
On the subject of the "spiritual" side of asana:
I used to do Tae Kwon Do. One of the tenents was "the best way to teach philosophy is by example." I think that this also holds true for the spiritual side of asana. When students learn behaviors by example, they internalize them. When students learn words, they repeat the words but often never understand the meaning. I did a teacher training certificate with Ganga White and Tracey Rich. The thing that impressed me the most about them was how they dealt with questions. When asked if (for example) your back foot should be 45 degrees or 90 degrees, instead of saying a bunch of words that the students would memorize and mindlessly repeat, they got up and tried the pose both ways, noting what each way did to the foot, leg, back, energy of the pose etc. This modeling of experiencing body/mind awareness and actually finding out for yourself taught far more than any amount of words. I believe that the spiritual part of asana happens naturally with time and cannot be rushed. Once your body and mind are open, it just starts happening.
Edited by jimg 2007-08-29 5:53 PM
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| hector:
home practice is a huge side of this. i encourage my students to practice at home between classes--because this is where the real learning begins.
the issue about body 'not mattering' is really that one shouldn't identify as 'body only'--that we are greater than our bodies. but we also include our bodies (at all five levels) for a time, before moving back into pure spirit, and then moving back into spirit-in-form.
but, what i know about alignment is this. when you align the body to the spirit (via the energy body), then you become more aware of that nature. and then in turn, that nature informs how the body can best be utilized and moved through and in this physical realm. in this way, the body becomes a finely tuned instrument of the spirit.
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I am so confused...
