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| kulkarnn - 2007-08-28 3:10 PM
(Soul wrote)
It is the image of oneself(that gets insulted), isn't that right? For example:'"I" am an ahtanga yogi...', '"My" teacher is such and such", It's ones identification of who one thinks one is that gets insulted.
(Kulkarn wrote)
===> Actually, one must have a respect for their teacher. And, that is, yes, partly the image of a student. In fact, this image is extremely useful for the student to progress. In the spiritual field, that identification is MUST. When identification is complete, duality is lost, and nonduality, union occurs. If the original guru is a realized one, identification with that guru, leads to realization automatically.
Hi Kulkarnji,
Yes I agree , have respect for ones teacher. I don't agree though that one needs to identify with a teacher or method .
What tends to happen when one identifies with a teacher or system, is one will tend to say things or hear things like ..."My teacher is better than yours"..."My system is better than yours"... and one gets insulted by such statements...and this IS ITSELF living in DUALITY, SEPARATION. The goal of yoga is to live in UNION.
If we are to identify with anything as who/what we are it is limitless, eternal, being, consciousness, bliss. Even then, these are mere words and one needs to go beyond the words and intellectual understanding of this to the ACTUALITY of it.
A good teacher will encourage the student to find the divine within themselves. An example I can think of is when Swami Satyananda left his ashram for sometime because his students were becoming too dependent on him and not looking for or seeing divinity in themselves. He then went back after some time.
Be in peace,
Soul
Edited by souljourney108 2007-08-27 2:50 AM
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| Darling Planthelper:
I am not going to worry myself about the following comments for a while, I might come back. For me, the most important thing is: The original post. I request you to read it carefully. And, see what is written there. And, then see my reply to that post.
About what you wrote related to the Pearl Harbour, I understand and there may be a truth in it. However, if you look at it from Japanese angle, they did a mischievous thing. What do you think?
planthelper - 2007-08-27 1:50 AM
kulkarnn wrote- 2007-08-26 3:10 PM
===> I disagree with this. Insult does not always lead to violence, but it may. Hindu and Muslim riot in India is not due to insult. It is due to other reasons, which I cannot discuss here unfortunately. Tomorrow, you shall say that Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour and USA felt insulted and therefore they bombed Japan. No. Japan was positively mischievous, and they were on the side of evil. Thank God, they improved later.
No..it does not always lead to violence but it the beginning or seed planted and can only grow, the out come often being war or violence. Your idea of good and evil has no relation the the subject matter, good and evil is relative to who's side you are on. America has done as much atrocity's to this world as the Japanese did...really what is a good person but an evil person's teacher?
I will also point out kulkarn it is well known now that America knew about the Japanese approaching pearl harbor as Australian radar had tracked the fleet across the pacific ocean giving the yanks plenty of warning. Its suspected(as they will not openly admit it) that the Amercain government ignored the warnings as they needed an excuse to go to war, for what you may ask: the good of the economy ...the fact is war is good for business...all very egocentric underlying reasons still.
Who is it who feels insulted?
===> It is the mind of the person who holds some values and those values are inappropriately crossed by the influencing way. I am not saying that ShalamOM meant that. But, it may be felt that way by some. I personally was not insulted, but I felt the statements needed correction.
Needed correction in your mind only, I'm sure its just perfect for shalomOM and she has every right to her opinion, correction implies wrongness and in this field there is no right or wrong. To me its like saying to a Christian that not only you disagree their god is not god but correcting them and telling them in fact it is Krishna.
It is the image of oneself, isn't that right? For example:'"I" am an ahtanga yogi...', '"My" teacher is such and such", It's ones identification of who one thinks one is that gets insulted.
===> Actually, one must have a respect for their teacher. And, that is, yes, partly the image of a student. In fact, this image is extremely useful for the student to progress. In the spiritual field, that identification is MUST. When identification is complete, duality is lost, and nonduality, union occurs. If the original guru is a realized one, identification with that guru, leads to realization automatically.
I think your missing the point or the lesson to be learned here Kulkarn nothing has being said against not respecting your teacher and your point has nothing to do with ones image being insulted. I would go further in saying i feel that any teacher worth their salt would tell you not to be insulted by such comments and i would further recommend if your teacher is telling you to be insulted by this, please find a new teacher asap.
Kulkarn please quote me where exactly i compare Osho and Sivananda? Some times i wonder if you even reading posts properly before replying.
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| Oh I see. Now, I understand what you are saying. I agree with this. But, that is depicted not only the responses, but also in the original post. Actually, original post makes it very explicit. However, I do not feel any problem in comparing two styles. For example, if one style does not have Pooja, it is ok to say that Style A does not currently include Pooja and then if one wants to explain what Pooja means and its importance, etc. then they are not demeaning that style.
Peace.
souljourney108 - 2007-08-27 2:42 AM
What tends to happen when one identifies with a teacher or system, is one will tend to say things or hear things like ..."My teacher is better than yours"..."My system is better than yours"... and one gets insulted by such statements...and this IS ITSELF living in DUALITY, SEPARATION. The goal of yoga is to live in UNION. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Kulkarn please quote me where exactly i compare Osho and Sivananda? Some times i wonder if you even reading posts properly before replying.
Osho has a very bad reputation in the Hindu world. I think I read somewhere he was deported from the United States for his strange conduct, which I really don't care to go into detail about. I'm sure you can surf the internet and find it. He's very much disliked in Nepal as well. He does have some nice words of wisdom and such, but he's not what he's cracked up to be.
Planet Helper, I read where you posted about Osho too, I really don't have the time to go back and find it, but you did reference Osho in one of your earlier posts.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | You know, every time I read this subject line, it makes me gasp. I too adore Swami Sivananda, I think he is incredible and have several of his books. Swami Jyotrimayananda was his disciple in Puerto Rico, did all his translations, worked as his right hand up until he died. My vedantic studies have been from the Yoga Research Foundation, that Swami Jyotrimayananda founded years ago. He's going to be 75 years old in February. I totally support his Ashram in Miami. I donate my beeswax candles and honey to them.
Anyway, to read Sivananda, the true path is so incorrect and not what Hinduism is about. This is how the Christian movement does their thing, they go out and spread the gospel according to whomever, try to mold and alter culture's to suit their intentions....which can be very sneaky and undermining to the culture itself, and so on.
Although....I do know that the original poster was not meaning to harm. I'm almost 100% sure it was pure excitement from the discovery of their path. I think its wonderful. It's so easy to misinterpret words and the English language. I'm also pretty certain that the OP would agree and really didn't mean this to sound the way some of us has interpreted it to be.
We all love Swami Sivananda, he was a fine guru and was one of (notice, I said one of) the leading pioneers for establishing yoga in the USA.
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Expert Yogi
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| Well, "insult" or not, I feel fairly certain shalamom was trying to create a little controversy here and that has happened. That much is perfectly clear. Whether that is right or wrong, good or bad is not the question. Sometimes it is good to "stir the pot" and we get some interesting discussion. Personally, I would prefer it to happen in a less confrontational way, but I don't always get to make those decisions. 
As far as identifying with one guru and playing the "mine is better than your" game, that is exactly what SM has done. It is a little sad and juvenile, but as it has been pointed out, that can happen in a time of great excitement. OTOH, this poster has pointed out to us in the past, if I recall correctly, that she is an "advanced" yogi and consequently should be past that and able to share her story without inferring, implying or stating that we are all wrong in our beliefs or practices.
As I stated earlier, I believe most of the modern masters respect Sivananda highly. Most of my Iyengar teachers started their yoga lives with Swami Sivananda Radha and owe a great deal of gratitude to that path. I also know that BKS met with Swami Radha and they enjoyed long discussions and respected each other's teachings tremendously. |
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| i love swami radha. i wish i'd known her in life. 
my teacher, dharma mittra, is a sivananda yogin. i've been with him for years now. i do love what he teaches, etc. he's a great teacher. but i don't claim that he is the only great teacher out there, or that his learning is the only way to learn, etc. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Very well. I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt. Where is the OP anyways?? Is this one of those post and dash threads???  |
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Sivananda, the true path
