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| Hello,
I am new to this forum.
Isn't it unethical to charge so much to teach yoga? It's not at all necessary to charge any fee, because they'll always get donations from the students. That should be enough, and morever, this is how dharmic traditions function, and yoga is a dharmic tradition, right?
Even retreats cost a lot, one need only look at sivananda's retreat in bahamas and the rest. It's become more a vacation than serious spiritual practice.
What do members think of this?
Seeker
p.s.
Are there simple yogic exercises that a beginner can do, without having to practice under a teacher? It's mainly for reducing fat and increasing muscle, and keeping the body in shape. Any advice?
Edited by seeker 2007-08-28 12:30 PM
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| Yoga teachers have to pay rent, eat and buy clothes just like the rest of us, so of course they have to be paid for the work they're doing. They may be spiritual and all that, but they can't live on love, light and air. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
    
| In the past, there was no cash changing hands between a guru and student, but the student devoted his/her entire life to the guru. If you would like to move here and clean my house or do my yard work, I would happily teach you "free."  It is simpler in this day and age to make the exchange in cash. That way, no one student pays more than the other and the teacher can pay the rent on the studio as well as attend to small details such as eating  |
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| yogis got to eat! We also charge because we can. |
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| tourist - 2007-08-28 12:43 PM
In the past, there was no cash changing hands between a guru and student, but the student devoted his/her entire life to the guru.
Actually that's not true either. If you read the biography of Marpa the Translator, he went into India with gold and other gifts for his guru. These were specifically to pay for the teaches, in addition to other things. So people have been paying their gurus for some time. |
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| I must admit if I didnt have bills to pay and children to feed and clothe, I would do it for free, occasionaly I do free classes at my childrens school. My meditation classes Raja yoga are FREE, I tried to pay my teachers but they say, they get so much out of spreading the teaching that they dont want anything in return - karma yoga? is this ego for peace and service of others, like what neel was explaining. I will give them a little bit of something every know and again though, to show my appreciation.  |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| GJ - yes, there were significant "gifts" which may have included housing etc. as well. As I recall, Krishnamacharya and others relied on wealthy patrons to provide for their material needs. Those teachers would probably not have allowed any "drop-in" students, which is what North American students prefer to do these days, it seems. Most expected a life-long commitment at least and one was expected to sit at the feet of the master until he accepted you as a student. Different times, different place, different currency. |
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| 1.
As for my own Yoga Classes:
- I do not charge for Yoga Classes.
- I charge only for my time.
- I charge only what a student can pay. That means if a student can not pay at all, he/she does not pay. If he/she can pay less, he/she pays less, and if they can pay more, more.
When I teach at other institutions, I do not charge students. I charge the institution according to what they can pay.
2. As for why I charge: My 24 hour day is not dedicated to the service of the world in a Monastic way. Therefore, many of those hours cost me to spend them. And, that payment I have to make myself. I do not trust (with experiential proof) that I can make that amount through donations, neither I can reduce my payments to others based on what I get.
3. As for simple yoga exercises for keeping body in shape, reducing fat and increasing muscles: NO yoga exercises are necessary to achieve this purpose. This can be achieved without any yoga exercises just by doing simple activities such as walking, running, swimming, playing with kids, eating less (possibly living on donations which shall not permit eating too much! Sorry for this joke. I did not mean hurting. ), etc.
Peace
seeker - 2007-08-28 12:23 PM
Hello,
I am new to this forum.
Isn't it unethical to charge so much to teach yoga? It's not at all necessary to charge any fee, because they'll always get donations from the students. That should be enough, and morever, this is how dharmic traditions function, and yoga is a dharmic tradition, right?
Even retreats cost a lot, one need only look at sivananda's retreat in bahamas and the rest. It's become more a vacation than serious spiritual practice.
What do members think of this?
Seeker
p.s.
Are there simple yogic exercises that a beginner can do, without having to practice under a teacher? It's mainly for reducing fat and increasing muscle, and keeping the body in shape. Any advice? |
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| Some schools of yoga still offer apprentiships, labour in return for training |
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| They charge because they operate a business. Their time is money.
Yoga in general is a business.
dwd |
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| you pose a difficult question, one I have pondered myself as well. Some yoga teachers may charge too much because they want to have too many material possessions in this world, but it is no point to worry too much about their spiritual plane in relation to money and their attachment to it and the world. I have caught myself feelign a sense of entitlement and that yoga should be free, but then if it was it would not help me to detach from my obsession with money. I spend thousands of dollars on my car, bills, food, entertainment, etc..... but how much am I willing to spend on my search for myself? Yoga has saved me money because I rarely eat out anymore and I made a clothesline to hang dry my clothes, and I no longer have a cable bill. Being a vegatarian is pretty cheap, my groceries for the week are around $50, where as before I would spend $100 easy.
I save at least a couple hundred a month from learning more about myself, which I have through yoga, but that couple hundred I save I don't want to spend on yoga. God has basically said, "neil here is some more money" and I say "thanks God I will keep it for myself, time for a new car."
So while I have worried about the instructors attachment to money, that takes the focus of my attachment to money which is my real issue. If I give someone $100, because for some reason I felt it was the right thing to do, and they choose to pee on it, well I dont think it is my soul that suffers for it. If a guy on the side of the road asks me for money, and I give it and they buy beer, that is there issue, sometimes I will just take them in a store and buy the food for them.
If you really dont want to pay for yoga tell the teacher and offer 2 hours of your time doing things for them for every 1 hour of their time. Maybe even 3 to 1 would be better, If they are a teacher they have spent a lot of time learning/studying to help others, not just the one hour they are with you.
on this subject, just be open to the possibilities
enjoy the journey,
seeker
Edited by tubeseeker 2007-08-28 6:42 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Most yoga teachers I know have a day job to pay the bills and a yoga teaching job to pay their yoga bills and not a whole lot more.
BKS encourages us to charge what we are worth but always give more than we charge for |
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Location: Upstate NY | FYI.. Sivananda does allow students to come for free to ashram and participate in activities with the approval of the local director, if student is in need............ one must also remember that Sivananda offers a wide variety of activities to individuals not to make profit but as "fundraisers" to allocate funds for daily ashram living............ There are not many yoga teachers like Neel who offer instruction on a sliding scale and that is a shame because after all it is not about the money................. there are many people who can pay and very well should, but for those who cannot afford much or nothing at all should never be turned away either! That is the sign you have met a instructor with a yogic mind and heart! Hats of to you Neelji! Mucho Metta, Ravi |
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| i find myself frustrated by this idea that a yoga teacher is a greedy person because they charge for things.
i am running a retreat this october. during the weekend, i will be working about 38 hours. if i get 11 people to sign up, i earn $0. that is, i break even.
i will feel blessed if i get 11 people. i will feel triple blessed if i fill the workshop at 30 because then i'll make a nice profit for the weekend, and in turn that money will be put toward the next workshop that i'm planning.
so, i find it really frustrating that someone insinuates that i'm "greedy" or not practicing yoga or dharma because i ask people to pay $450 for a weekend workshop in a 'nice' but nothing too fancy venue.
beyond this, i have a problem with the idea that a spiritual retreat cannot or should not be a "vacation." the whole point of "retreating" is to rejuvenate. the whole point is to have the space to breathe, to relax, and to sink oneself into the gentle process of spiritual practices.
personally, i love to retreat, and i'm very blessed that about once a year, i get to go on a silent, full day retreat at a local contemplative convent. during this day, i meditate and contemplate.
i realized that my clients needed something like this. most of my clients are mothers of many children who are school-aged and also living on a strict, fixed income.
autumn can be tough for them. school starts, and so does a rash of necessary events. they have to visit schools, their children start activities, which means that various activities have to be balanced and moms have to organize those schedules, get people fed, clothed, cleaned, etc. these women also are often called to volunteer in a number of capacities in school, in these events. and they also ahve to nurture themselves.
this time of year, my classes drop off in numbers significantly--because my clients, these women, are incredibly busy.
by mid october, these aspects of activity slow down, but another one starts. their children's activities begin to focus on holiday pagents, school projects focus on due dates before the holidays, and school activities and sports focus on 'finals' and have special practices and events for them. then, there's the holiday season itself--with church and family obligations, parties for school, church, family, and friends, and the holidays themselves.
this single weekend seems to be the only eye of that storm. the only weekend where they MAY get to rest.
and so i offered it then. and i offered it at a price that they could afford and would be willing to pay.
i'm lucky--6 have already signed up--and i just pray for those 5 more. as i said, i'd be happy to break even. i'd be happier to make profit, but i have no expectation of it.
perhaps someday, this business of mine will be able to support me, but so far, it's just barely breaking even. years, i function at a loss.
it does sadden me--because in the 'old ways' teachers were more valued, they were gifted, they were paid, and they were cared for. people provided them with housing, food, clothing--anything that they needed.
today, people accuse us of being greedy if we want to have a safe, reliable car to get to our work, or a simple house, or food.
if i had to support myself this instant, i wouldn't be able to teach as much yoga as i do--i'd have to get a day job. i wouldn't be able to write as much as i do for my clients, to do as many events, and so on. i wouldn't be able to feed myself, clothe myself, shelter myself.
i hope someday i can.
thankfully, my husband supports us--and he supports my business.
but someday, i hope that my business will make a profit. even if it's just $1.
so until such time, i would really like it if people would stop suggesting that i'm greedy.
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| also, i offer classes on a sliding scale and i've never turned anyone away. i teach for free quite frequently, and as a fund raiser for different sorts of events (eg, i give to silent auctions--10 free private lessons, etc).
this is probably why my business is not profitable.
and if it means anything to anyone, i currently drive 1.25 hours into the city to teach my client while her daughter undergoes chemotherapy. i go once a week, i teach for free. i ask for nothing from her--as i know that every dollar and every once of love and energy is spent on her daughter.
i go there for her, and her alone. i go because i know she needs a space of her own, even in all the crazy pandemonium of that hospital where she lives while her daughter fights a rare form of cancer that she may not win.
i stay for an hour, sometimes two, and then i drive home. i do it because i love her, and i know that she needs the yoga. she needs the break. i go for her--and that is it.
so, there's my greed for you. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| This is always an interesting subject every time it comes up - which it does with astonishing regularity. Another part of the answer here is that in "western" society anything which does not have a monetary value is not seen to be valuable. I am constantly amazed at the low turnout to some of our free events. We are running free classes all next week and it will be interesting to see how many people actually come to them. People don't really want a free class, they want a free class at the day and time of their choosing with their favourite teacher! Of course there are some who stay away form the free classes because they feel they are strictly for new students and there are a few (somewhere probably - not in our studio that I know of) who go to all the free classes they can get because they are bargain hunters. But yeah - I am trying to give away some old but useful furniture. I have a feeling I would get rid of it easier if I charged $50! |
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| tourist - 2007-08-28 10:36 PM
I have a feeling I would get rid of it easier if I charged $50!
Reminds me of an old joke about a guy and his sofa. One day he decides to get rid of the sofa, so he moves it out of the house, next to the street. He puts a sign on it "Free Sofa". The sofa sits there for a week, no takers, everybody seems to think there's a catch. So he puts a new sign on the sofa "Sofa, $50". The next day somebody steals it! |
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| A more appropriate question, assuming Yoga is being transmitted from Teacher to student, might be "why are they charging me so little to transform my life"?
Odd that somone will gladly pay a therapist for 13 years of sessions to gain almost nothing without a second thought. But to pay someone the pitance of $15 to spend 90 minutes with you to help you change your life, that's a protest.
How little we value teachers in this society. Even when we do pay them and do grumble, we rarely recognize or honor them in any way. But it's okay for the CEO of Dell to make 92 milion dollars a year. We ask all the wrong questions and pay according to our perverse prioritites. It is no wonder this question comes up so often. It is merely the mirror of the society we've created with an unmindful evolution. |
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| On this very topic, I have a question that is similar to the whole issue/question of teachers charge. Well, recently I was reading yoga sutra and on one of the chapters patangjali said something about yogis should never accept gifts? I'm not sure if that meant in literal, materialistic sense or other wise. So can anyone clarify that for me? Is it even in similar sense with this topic question? |
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| Another good reason to charge is that the majority of people appreciate things more if they pay, if its free, then it loses worth. |
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| i have to admit that i am particularly sensitive to that issue right now, as once again i was accused, in person, of being greedy.
ironicly, the person who called me greedy spends more on yoga in 6 months than my husband's take-home income is for the year.
and you know what, i feel like the income that my husband earns allows me to live like a queen. he supports both of us, we put money into savings and investments each month, we save up for our vacations, continuing education, etc, and we're even able to afford to get acupuncture for our rabbit who hasn't hopped in a week (the first acupuncture appointment was yesterday--he's already moving his legs more, and he was given herbs for his eyes, bones/joints, nervous system which he loves and his eyes are already clearing after only two doses!).
i feel incredibly blessed by my life. i am so thankful that my husband is here for so many reasons, but including the fact that he is willing and able to support me, that we are both willing and able to live so well on so little.
and how we love our lives. sure, we'd like to be able to save more, or have more for ourselves (my husband and i want to get rolfing each week as part of our "medicine" but since we can't afford it cash, we have decided to wait until we can), but we're really happy with what we have.
we feel like incredibly wealthy people every day. and i feel extremely wealthy because we can give october j the very best care possible.
Edited by zoebird 2007-08-29 8:55 AM
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| Often times those with the most are the most greedy. It's really sad, but they just can't seem to get enough, even though they have more than most.
Anyway, I'd love to here about the retreat, why don't you put up a thread for in the retreats section? |
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| i did--and it's in my signature line. 
the information is all on my web site. i'm really excited about it. i guess i could post the whole advertisement (as seen on my web site) on the post.
i'm really excited about the retreat. i think it's going to be awesome.
i was looking for a place to hold one, and what i wanted was: nice rooms (not camp style), good food (not camp/cafeteria style), a meditation labyrinth (this was a total wish), and hiking trails. i got all of that plus a camp fire place, an outdoor pavillion for yoga, etc, an in house spa available (if people want to pay for massages separately, beforehand), and a really good AV system where we can watch a cool/fun yoga related movie (a documentary maybe), and so on.
it's a really nice place, and really affordable for what it offers. and i'm really excited.
i'm focusing it on meditation and contemplation--these 'restful' activities--and the asana practices will focus on renewal and rejuvenation. |
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| Zoe it sounds perfect! do you find that clients mind sharing rooms or do they prefer to be on their own?
how many people are expecting?
Edited by raquel 2007-08-29 11:50 AM
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| I just wanted to add that I'm not anyone's guru.
I teach from a western perspective, time is money.
I actually think the problem is the reverse at our studio. As teachers we teach up to 40 students at a time, but get the same rate as the other teachers teaching 7-8 students.
If everyone of my students brought in one dollar and gave it to me. I could provide a lot more for my family. |
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Why do yoga teachers charge?
