|
|
| Now as far as i can understand from the teachings of some of the most prominent sages in india, the reason for chanting is to decondition ourselves from life times of unconscious mind states and remind ourselves of our true nature. If this is the case one would think it would be very important to understand what it is we are chanting. The act of chanting something we have little understanding of cannot be as powerful mover of the mind than chanting words and language we can comprehend. This is pure logic.
If one is of a Hindi background and understands the words for what they are then of course these words will have a deep effect on the mind, just as when i read the chants in my own language. Otherwise i propose the "power" that is said to be accessed by chanting in Sanskrit is purely a cultural illusion painted by peoples with a lack of true understanding.
So chanting in Sanskrit..... I would recommend trying it in your own language and see what sort of effect it has. I'm sure it will remind you much more effectively and give you many things to contemplate on rather than blabing some Sanskrit you have a vague understanding of.
Test it out find out for yourselves.
Edited by planthelper 2007-09-16 12:12 AM
|
|
| |
|
Location: Upstate NY | Om Namah Sivaya, There are two ancient languages when spoken are known to create a internal vibration that envokes the divine......... Hebrew and Sanskrit This is why we chant in Sanskrit Mucho Metta, Ravi |
|
| |
|
| Hmmm... latin comes to mind as well. Really I don't believe the language is important, per se, so much as the level of faith it invokes in the believer. |
|
| |
|
Location: Upstate NY | You may wonder why we should use Sanskrit for our mantras, why not other languages, or why not English, especially since we can understand it so well? Ultimately all languages are mantric, that is, they are rooted in the truth of energy at its most fundamental level. For instance, in the transparency of grunts and groans, the sharp cries of pain or the pleasure soaked sounds of love-making. What we are trying to do through mantras is access levels of consciousness and healing that are submerged in the depths of our awareness. We have to penetrate to these levels of depth. Unfortunately English has become such a utilitarian language that it becomes almost impossible for us to use it to penetrate to the depths of our being. Each language has its own vibratory structure that is intended for specific purposes. English, for instance, has been developed into a sophisticated conceptual language. Predominantly utilitarian in function, it is easy for us to communicate in English with each other using arbitrary labels that we have conventionally agreed upon to represent specific things, most of which pertain to the world of everyday consciousness. English poetry is of course an exception, a form of the language opens the doors of deeper levels of perception; but, because we have gotten used to using the language in such a utilitarian manner, the words rarely alter our states of consciousness in any lasting or dramatic way. Sanskrit is a language that has been constructed at the deep levels of consciousness typically available to advanced practitioners of yoga and meditation. The sounds are specially constructed to penetrate the analytical mind and affect our nervous system very directly. In this sense, they are a short cut, and are like spiritual pharmaceuticals that enter into our soul with palpable physiological effects. It is this capability that gives mantras the very specific therapeutic and spiritual properties that are missing in our everyday language. At the very least, they offer us a means to rise above the conditionings of mental patterns in order to view life and consciousness from a different perspective, one that offers healing and enlightenment. Mantras are like programmed vehicles that transport us to spiritual realities, states of mind and heart that we often loose sight of because we become burdened with cares or jaded by the perception of popular culture. Mantras enable us to cut through the illusions of the world. Often, the unhealthy subliminal messages of advertisers tell us we are not good enough, not beautiful enough or powerful enough. Then there are other factors, such as, the ways in which society subtly grades our racial background, economic background or professional background, which in turn causes us to send negative messages to our nervous system. Sanskrit is arguably the oldest language in the world. More importantly, it is the foundation of numerous Indo-European languages, including French, Latin and German which have all been used in the construction of English. In fact, English is also a profoundly mantric language, capable of affecting us deeply, but we have to do a lot of unlearning if we are to recover its mantric capabilities. Sanskrit, on the other hand, can function as our yogic language, a means of accessing and becoming aware of spiritual realities through modes of perception that are different from everyday consciousness. Sanskrit and Hebrew are the only two languages in the world in which the visual characters of their alphabet correspond very precisely to their audible sounds, a fact discovered by Swiss physicist Hans Jenny through his extraordinary invention known as the oscilloscope. In other words, there is deep correlation between the visual and the auditory in these languages that allows for a "crossing over" of faculties, a process that naturally facilitates altered states of awareness. The rishis, or authors of mantras, were actually able to "see" these sounds, a process known as mantra drista, not uncommon among recreational drug users or those who are extremely ill. The difference in using mantras instead of drugs is the clarity and naturalness of the perception that mantras induce. There are no side effects either and, more importantly, one gains a deeper and truer sense of identity rather than getting lost in the false or convoluted sense of identity induced by drugs or illness. Mantras refine and purify our consciousness. With modern languages, such as English, we have moved away from the primal, therapeutic and spiritual qualities of language that is naturally encoded in the visceral power of the original mantric, root sounds. Mantras retain this power and have been preserved for thousands of years in an uninterrupted tradition of sacred sound. In other words, when we use mantras, we are actively participating in a living body of sound and consciousness which is a vast field of healing energies. There are other therapeutic effects of Sanskrit chanting that lie in the tongue positions of pronunciation. The rich phonetics of Sanskrit strike the palate at multiple reflex points stimulating energy in numerous meridians that awaken dormant parts of the brain and enhance the circulation and flow of energy throughout our body. We are only just beginning to study the health benefits of this language in clinical settings with promising results; for instance, through the work of Dr. Deepak Chopra M.D. and Dr. Dharma Singh Khalsa M.D., both respected medical doctors and yogis. Mantras have been successfully used in India for thousands of years to serve a variety of purposes; their applications range from the lofty goals of awakening of spiritual energy and illuminating the mind to practical everyday affairs, such as, succeeding in a job interview or overcoming an illness. Mantras have also been used to enhance personal relationships, assist in the death of a loved one, transform negative situations into positive ones and to increase health, wealth and happiness. The credentials for mantras lie in the fact that they were birthed in the minds and hearts of the same culture that gave us Yoga, Ayurveda - the world's oldest medical system, and many mathematical discoveries including the invention of the zero as well as the visual form of the numerical system that was later adopted by the Romans. The true purpose of mantras is to clear obstacles in ones spiritual growth and to usher in enlightenment or spiritual awakening. Healing and enlightenment are really two sides of the same coin: it is not possible to have one without the other. To commit to enlightenment is to commit to the deep healing so necessary to detoxify oneself on all levels - physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Mantras can greatly assist in this process. Ultimately, mantras are the secret to immortality, for they serve as access codes to our deepest sense of self, our own indestructible source of existence in a divine, non-local reality. Mucho Metta, Ravi
Edited by Ravi 2007-09-16 11:36 AM
|
|
| |
|
| planthelper - 2007-09-16 8:08 AM
If one is of a Hindi background and understands the words for what they are then of course these words will have a deep effect on the mind,
People of a 'Hindi background' speak Hindi, not Sanskrit.
Jonathon
|
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
 
Location: Oregon | I have only chanted in Sanskrit two days. This was as part of a weekend Yoga Sutras study class. Prior to that I was invited to a Buddhist gathering, they chant for 20 minutes, I forget what. But I had an interesting connection prior to that, that lead me to wonder the role of chanting, at least for me.
What is it about the need to be heard, to speak? Some of this might have to do with the need to express opinion. Again, at least for me. I wonder how much chanting will give an outlet to that need for verbalization, so that maybe I'm wiser with my words. I have been too free with my opinion. Not that I speak with malice, but rather I didn't realize how hard it can be for people to hear and express opinion. Or even just articulate what they want.
Even the loud breath or an omm, I think, is a conduit and a vibration that might, depending on the person, give them permission to speak, more open to listening, or an outlet for the excess (compared to others).
In some ways it might not matter what is chanted. For me, the Buddhist chant means nothing. I need some connection to what I'm attempting. The Yoga Sutras are indeed where I am almost being lead, so chanting them on the fly in Sanskrit the first day, was merely an experience I wasn't prepared for, but definitely on the path. |
|
| |
|
| Hi Dre,
Swami Sivananda says that "Kirtan is the easiest, cheapest, quickest, surest, safest way to attain God-realisation"
Jonathon
|
|
| |
|
| Ravi - 2007-09-15 10:44 PM
Om Namah Sivaya, There are two ancient languages when spoken are known to create a internal vibration that envokes the divine......... Hebrew and Sanskrit This is why we chant in Sanskrit Mucho Metta, Ravi
Ravi the divine is beyond words. |
|
| |
|
| jonnie - 2007-09-15 5:03 AM
planthelper - 2007-09-16 8:08 AM
If one is of a Hindi background and understands the words for what they are then of course these words will have a deep effect on the mind,
People of a 'Hindi background' speak Hindi, not Sanskrit.
Jonathon
Sorry i mean "hindu" people....my mistake.
Edited by planthelper 2007-09-17 3:40 AM
|
|
| |
|
| jonnie - 2007-09-15 5:17 AM
Hi Dre,
Swami Sivananda says that "Kirtan is the easiest, cheapest, quickest, surest, safest way to attain God-realisation"
Jonathon
Sivananda spoke sanskrit and understood the words he was saying, my point precisely. |
|
| |
|
| Ravi - 2007-09-15 1:33 AM
You may wonder why we should use Sanskrit for our mantras, why not other languages, or why not English, especially since we can understand it so well? Ultimately all languages are mantric, that is, they are rooted in the truth of energy at its most fundamental level. For instance, in the transparency of grunts and groans, the sharp cries of pain or the pleasure soaked sounds of love-making. What we are trying to do through mantras is access levels of consciousness and healing that are submerged in the depths of our awareness. We have to penetrate to these levels of depth. Unfortunately English has become such a utilitarian language that it becomes almost impossible for us to use it to penetrate to the depths of our being. Each language has its own vibratory structure that is intended for specific purposes. English, for instance, has been developed into a sophisticated conceptual language. Predominantly utilitarian in function, it is easy for us to communicate in English with each other using arbitrary labels that we have conventionally agreed upon to represent specific things, most of which pertain to the world of everyday consciousness. English poetry is of course an exception, a form of the language opens the doors of deeper levels of perception; but, because we have gotten used to using the language in such a utilitarian manner, the words rarely alter our states of consciousness in any lasting or dramatic way. Sanskrit is a language that has been constructed at the deep levels of consciousness typically available to advanced practitioners of yoga and meditation. The sounds are specially constructed to penetrate the analytical mind and affect our nervous system very directly. In this sense, they are a short cut, and are like spiritual pharmaceuticals that enter into our soul with palpable physiological effects. It is this capability that gives mantras the very specific therapeutic and spiritual properties that are missing in our everyday language. At the very least, they offer us a means to rise above the conditionings of mental patterns in order to view life and consciousness from a different perspective, one that offers healing and enlightenment. Mantras are like programmed vehicles that transport us to spiritual realities, states of mind and heart that we often loose sight of because we become burdened with cares or jaded by the perception of popular culture. Mantras enable us to cut through the illusions of the world. Often, the unhealthy subliminal messages of advertisers tell us we are not good enough, not beautiful enough or powerful enough. Then there are other factors, such as, the ways in which society subtly grades our racial background, economic background or professional background, which in turn causes us to send negative messages to our nervous system. Sanskrit is arguably the oldest language in the world. More importantly, it is the foundation of numerous Indo-European languages, including French, Latin and German which have all been used in the construction of English. In fact, English is also a profoundly mantric language, capable of affecting us deeply, but we have to do a lot of unlearning if we are to recover its mantric capabilities. Sanskrit, on the other hand, can function as our yogic language, a means of accessing and becoming aware of spiritual realities through modes of perception that are different from everyday consciousness. Sanskrit and Hebrew are the only two languages in the world in which the visual characters of their alphabet correspond very precisely to their audible sounds, a fact discovered by Swiss physicist Hans Jenny through his extraordinary invention known as the oscilloscope. In other words, there is deep correlation between the visual and the auditory in these languages that allows for a "crossing over" of faculties, a process that naturally facilitates altered states of awareness. The rishis, or authors of mantras, were actually able to "see" these sounds, a process known as mantra drista, not uncommon among recreational drug users or those who are extremely ill. The difference in using mantras instead of drugs is the clarity and naturalness of the perception that mantras induce. There are no side effects either and, more importantly, one gains a deeper and truer sense of identity rather than getting lost in the false or convoluted sense of identity induced by drugs or illness. Mantras refine and purify our consciousness. With modern languages, such as English, we have moved away from the primal, therapeutic and spiritual qualities of language that is naturally encoded in the visceral power of the original mantric, root sounds. Mantras retain this power and have been preserved for thousands of years in an uninterrupted tradition of sacred sound. In other words, when we use mantras, we are actively participating in a living body of sound and consciousness which is a vast field of healing energies. There are other therapeutic effects of Sanskrit chanting that lie in the tongue positions of pronunciation. The rich phonetics of Sanskrit strike the palate at multiple reflex points stimulating energy in numerous meridians that awaken dormant parts of the brain and enhance the circulation and flow of energy throughout our body. We are only just beginning to study the health benefits of this language in clinical settings with promising results; for instance, through the work of Dr. Deepak Chopra M.D. and Dr. Dharma Singh Khalsa M.D., both respected medical doctors and yogis. Mantras have been successfully used in India for thousands of years to serve a variety of purposes; their applications range from the lofty goals of awakening of spiritual energy and illuminating the mind to practical everyday affairs, such as, succeeding in a job interview or overcoming an illness. Mantras have also been used to enhance personal relationships, assist in the death of a loved one, transform negative situations into positive ones and to increase health, wealth and happiness. The credentials for mantras lie in the fact that they were birthed in the minds and hearts of the same culture that gave us Yoga, Ayurveda - the world's oldest medical system, and many mathematical discoveries including the invention of the zero as well as the visual form of the numerical system that was later adopted by the Romans. The true purpose of mantras is to clear obstacles in ones spiritual growth and to usher in enlightenment or spiritual awakening. Healing and enlightenment are really two sides of the same coin: it is not possible to have one without the other. To commit to enlightenment is to commit to the deep healing so necessary to detoxify oneself on all levels - physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Mantras can greatly assist in this process. Ultimately, mantras are the secret to immortality, for they serve as access codes to our deepest sense of self, our own indestructible source of existence in a divine, non-local reality. Mucho Metta, Ravi
Ravi please quote your sources in future....I'm calling cut and paste poster on this one. If you just copy others words you'll never investigate for yourself. This is why this post still does not address my point of reminding ourselves of our true nature by using chanting to recondition the mind through repeating words in our own language that the mind has to absorb beyond just a vibration. |
|
| |
|
| planthelper - 2007-09-17 11:42 AM
jonnie - 2007-09-15 5:17 AM
Hi Dre,
Swami Sivananda says that "Kirtan is the easiest, cheapest, quickest, surest, safest way to attain God-realisation"
Jonathon
Sivananda spoke sanskrit and understood the words he was saying, my point precisely.
Hi Planthelper,
My reply was in response to DJDre’s comments and not your original post, so it should be read in that context.
You are correct that Swami Sivanada did indeed speak Sanskrit. He also stated that a student may perform Kirtan in any language they wish, though I’m not sure that this proves the point in your original post.
Words certainly have power, and some people do argue that the extent of that power is directly proportionate to the understanding and the meaning that we give to the words.
Other people recognise the vibrational aspects of the universe and are aware that some languages vibrate at a higher level than others. Sanskrit is an example of this.
This does not negate the fact that chanting in English (or any mother tongue) will certainly bring spiritual benefits to the chanter, though chanting in Sanskrit is still likely to be more beneficial.
To paraphrase you, if a student did decide to simply blab some Sanskrit they have a vague understanding of, it is indeed unlikely they will achieve much, though this says more about the student than the technique. A dedicated student should master the correct Sanskrit pronunciation and develop an understanding of what they are chanting.
To be honest Planthelper, I’m undecided in how to read your posts. You are clearly not from Mongolia and your previous posts demonstrate many attributes of a troll. You do however, raise some interesting points for discussion, so my advice to you (which you may take or leave) is to consider your motivation for actually posting here.
Jonathon
|
|
| |
|
| Ok, ok you got me.....i may not be a Mongolian jonnie it was purely to make a point. I may of carried just a tad too far, frankly I'm glad someone has just asked me cordially about my intention as I'm glad to talk to anyone when it is not an accusation. Honestly i don't see what my nationality or personality has to do with anything, it's the discussion and learning that counts right?
Truthfully I'm after good discussion and learning more about my true self. I can be quite frank and to the point which can be mistaken for trolling. For the record I'm an Aussie (we have a strange sense of humor)and I'm glad I've incited some good discussions and even a few laughs. Jonnie your are definitely one of my favorite's and one of the more real people on this forum.  I really don't want to upset anyone and I've realized i may be doing this with my Mongolian alias even tho i feel it is not relative. I guess others really do and its not up to me to teach them or push their buttons over it. You live and you learn i guess.....thanks for helping me see the light Jonnie.
Anyway its been a blast I'm off to find greener pastures. Good luck yoga dot com.
thanks for all the fish...
|
|
| |
|
Location: Upstate NY | Om Namah Sivaya PH, Adios Metta, Ravi
Edited by Ravi 2007-09-17 7:39 AM
|
|
| |
|
| The great revered Swamiji Shivanandaji did NOT speak Sanskrit. He was NOT a Sanskrit Scholar. He knew Sanskrit only as a part of his Yoga Studies and work. He spoke his own language and even English more than Sanskrit. And, his statement about Kirtan is a result of his Yoga work, and experience of Yoga practice. it has nothing to do with his knowing Sanskrit.
planthelper - 2007-09-17 11:42 AM
jonnie - 2007-09-15 5:17 AM
Hi Dre,
Swami Sivananda says that "Kirtan is the easiest, cheapest, quickest, surest, safest way to attain God-realisation"
Jonathon
Sivananda spoke sanskrit and understood the words he was saying, my point precisely.
|
|
| |
|
| planthelper - 2007-09-17 3:17 PM
For the record I'm an Aussie (we have a strange sense of humor)and I'm glad I've incited some good discussions and even a few laughs.
Ah!, an Aussie and a Douglas Adams fan. That explains it 
Seriously though, nationality is not important but honesty is always the best policy.
I hope you stick around and continue to post.
Jonathon
|
|
| |
|
| kulkarnn - 2007-09-17 3:57 PM
The great revered Swamiji Shivanandaji did NOT speak Sanskrit.
Really? It's funny but I just assumed that someone like him would speak it. I'll have to take a check on the assumptions that I make.
Jonathon
|
|
| |
|
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Jonnie,
Sanskrit is the most complicated, but yet simpliest language to learn. It's not an everyday kind of talk. The words have soooo many meanings...deep meanings that even words can't describe. I gave up on it a year ago,  ...that's right, I tried. My husband speaks and can read Sanskrit, because his Mother taught him. But, my husband is rare, he picks up languages very easily and can speak 7 that I know of very fluently. Sanskrit is one of those languages that if you learn it, you can learn just about any language.
As for chanting.....I believe this is important too. I've always chanted Tibetan mantras and sutras in the Tibetan language, and I've always chanted Hindu mantras the way I was taught as well. I know I probably sound hilarious...especially when I'm chanting around my husband..he over powers my voice...BIG TIME...and he chants the perfect OM's......and that's perfectly fine with me. The vibration is neat. OM is the sound of God. It's God's name. Anyway, I love Vedic Chanting. If you go to any Hindu Temple, sit there and listen for an hour...you will definitely come out feeling total PEACE. Sometimes if I'm not feeling well, or feel like I'm going to catch a cold or something...I can go to any Hindu temple, stay there for a couple of hours and feel perfectly fine afterwards. It's very incredible. I especially love our Shiva and Balaji temple.
Edited by Cyndi 2007-09-17 9:58 AM
|
|
| |
|
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
 
| Cyndi - 2007-09-17 6:57 AM
Sanskrit is one of those languages that if you learn it, you can learn just about any language.
Cindy - can you clarify this? I think you mean: it is so difficult that if you are able to learn it, you are probably one of the rare people who has an ability to pick up languages easily. Right? When I first read it I thought you meant: once you learn Sanskrit, you can learn other languages easily. |
|
| |
|
| Jonnibhai: What I actually meant in my post was : (NOT that your quotation was wrong. But,)
- the effect of Swami Shivanandaji and his chanting was NOT due to knowledge of Sanskrit. But, it was due to his Spiritual Practice.
- the effect of chanting is NOT due to knowledge of that language. I do not know many languages. And, I have listened to certain chantings from other cultures such as Gregorian Chanting. I do not know anything of what they are saying. But, there is no doubt that it has (positive, very positive) effect on me. And, as you know I am a Sanskrit person.
- in the same way, there is NO doubt that Sanskrit chanting without knowledge of it has profound effect on the listener. And, that is why thousands,(actually millions) chant it without knowing the meaing, or listen to it without knowing the meaning, and also employ others to chant for them, and also travel thousands of miles to listen to them. All of them are not fools.
- However, I can accept that if one knows the meaning, while chanting certain texts, especially the philosophical texts, there is an enhanced effect.
- And, I personally doubt whether such an effect can be created in ALL languages as far Yoga related effects are concerned.
jonnie - 2007-09-17 8:21 AM
kulkarnn - 2007-09-17 3:57 PM
The great revered Swamiji Shivanandaji did NOT speak Sanskrit.
Really? It's funny but I just assumed that someone like him would speak it. I'll have to take a check on the assumptions that I make.
Jonathon
|
|
| |
|
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | tourist - 2007-09-17 10:02 AM
Cyndi - 2007-09-17 6:57 AM
Sanskrit is one of those languages that if you learn it, you can learn just about any language.
Cyndi - can you clarify this? I think you mean: it is so difficult that if you are able to learn it, you are probably one of the rare people who has an ability to pick up languages easily. Right? When I first read it I thought you meant: once you learn Sanskrit, you can learn other languages easily.
Well, sorda. Actually, the only way I can describe is this....Sanskrit is "like" a Mother language. All the other languages, like our English language and such, has been diluted and watered down over all these thousands of years. That's what I meant.
I feel that if you do learn Sanskrit, you can learn other languages easily. It's not that Sanskrit is difficult, this is one language that you really should have a good teacher, like in my husband's case, his Mother. It's interesting, my husband's Mother is in Italy. She's already speaking fluent Italian. She's only been there a little over a year. Although...my MIL will tell you that English is hard, Go figure, right? |
|
| |
|
| kulkarnn - 2007-09-18 6:19 PM
Jonnibhai: What I actually meant in my post was : (NOT that your quotation was wrong. But,)
- the effect of Swami Shivanandaji and his chanting was NOT due to knowledge of Sanskrit. But, it was due to his Spiritual Practice.
Thanks Neel, yes I agree.
Jonathon
|
|
| |
|
| Cyndi - 2007-09-18 5:57 PM
Sanskrit is the most complicated, but yet simpliest language to learn. It's not an everyday kind of talk. The words have soooo many meanings...deep meanings that even words can't describe. I gave up on it a year ago.
Hi Cyndi,
I know how you feel
Try singing Sai Baba (of Shirdi) bhajans in Marathi
Jonathon
|
|
| |
Chanting in sanskrit?
