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| Hello all,
I've been practicing yoga on and off for about two years now. I'm young, fit, healthy, no dietary issues, medical issues, or preexisting conditions.
I've been following Iyengar's series from Light on Yoga, and currently I'm in a Kundalini yoga course also.
I have a very strange problem with Sarvangasana that I've not found reference to anywhere else.
After about 30 seconds of the shoulder stand, I can feel a "flow" from my thighs into my midsection. It's not uncomfortable, it's quite pleasant and relaxing actually.
Once the pose is completed and I relax down, the trouble begins.
Immediately after doing the shoulder stand, I loose all coordination, control, and grace from my gait. I become unsteady and stumbly, bumping into walls, having difficulty walking straight or maintaining a path, needing to brace myself to keep from stumbling or falling into things. My legs go Gumby and I'm basically flopping my way towards my destination.
Typically I bound up stairs two or three at a time, but after the asana, I have to go one at a time and hold the rail. All lower-body movement requires great concentration and focus to execute properly.
I feel as if I have MS or am recovering for paralysis, and the effect lasts for hours or days, gradually lessening as I "re-teach" myself to walk properly. I also lift weights, do gymnastics, and have strong legs, but find myself weak and lacking the strength I know my muscles have in them. I'll have trouble standing from laying down, as my legs threaten to buckle under normal loads.
I did the sarvangasana on Monday, after not doing it for a long while, to see if it still had that effect. It may have been worse then than ever before. I do a short set after running or working out, and I had trouble avoiding running into the wall, my entire body felt half-numb from the chest down, not a pins-and-needles, or lack of sensation, just a fuzzy, staticy feeling. I nearly fell while going up the stairs, as I tried to 'test' myself by forcing myself to leap up them like I literally ALWAYS do. Both legs simply refused to lift enough to clear the stair and I was lucky to have the railing to catch.
Yesterday, Tuesday, I tried to go jogging and found it extremely difficult to control my gait with any sort of elegance or poise. I was swaying from side to side of the track and scuffing my feet.
Only today was I able to go up the stairs two at a time, at about 1/2-1/3 the speed I normally do. Walking has improved to say, 80% of normal. Even so, my leg nearly buckled while I was crouching down to talk to a friend and tried to stand up with only one leg, something I do all the time!
I reviewed my books, all the documents and videos I found online, and I'm not doing it wrong! Or if I am, it's so subtle I can't detect it. I perform the chin-lock, deep breathing, balance the weight on my shoulders and not my neck...
The ONLY thing I can even fathom might be connected to this is when I was about 12-14 (more than a decade ago) I was playing "Chicken" in the lake with some friends. A friend larger than I lept onto my back unexpectedly in shallow water, which pinched a nerve or shifted a disc or something. It was quite painful, and greatly affected my walking / running / jumping, making me quite careful for a time, but either we couldn't afford a doctor or my parents didn't think it was worth the visit. After a few weeks, I was induced into playing Ultimate Frisbee despite the pain, and on leaping for a catch, I felt a pop, and my back was fine again.
I've never had a back problem since. I can do a free-style backbend to wrestler's bridge, then stand up unassisted; I can do a wall-walk to chest-press quite easily; I can do the wheel into a chest press (working on the handstand progression) without problem. I can do multi-minute handstands (toe-on-wall), frog planche, tuck planche, I can twist and contort every which way without any issue. The only thing, the ONLY thing that affects me negatively is the sarvangasana!
I'm flabbergasted! It seems like this pose induces a mild MS or short-term partial paralysis result in my body! What is going on!? |
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| In my opinion, you have the following options:
- Perform your asana with the results you described in front of a Scientist who has access to gadgets that can immediately measure what is going on within your body. And, use that analysis. I am sure this can be done, but I have no idea where and how you can get it done.
- study with a teacher who is highly experienced and follow the instructions.
Additional: Stop Kundalini Yoga (whatever that means to you). |
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| I would not be so certain you are doing Sarvangasana properly. I personally find that position, the position of "I am sure I'm doing it RIGHT" to be the absolute kiss of death. It is at that very moment, with a hearty chortle, that the Universe kicks you in the proverbial posterior.
Since the effects of Sarvangasana are nothing like the effects you are outlining we must conclude that either there is something mechanical that is not right in the physical body or that you are doing the pose improperly (or both).
It would be both kind and helpful if you would say more about Sarvangasana other than you do it right and you "chin lock, deep breathing, and balance the weight on my shoulders". Are you doing the pose on props or flat on the floor? Do you have what is termed a "healthy cervical curve"? What exact readings give you the impression that Jalandhara Bandha is appropriate for this pose AND that you are skilled enough to apply the bandha (which, by the way, is not simply a "neck lock")?
Additionally, mixing such disciplines as Kundalini (where the emphasis is so clearly the rapid release of kundalini energy coiled energetically in the base of the spine) and Iyengar where the energy flow in the body is so carefully guarded and so safely guided can be quite fogging. If you like both disciplines and mixing them works for you, then of course who am I to say. But they are inherently not complementary.
Furthermore, what you describe sounds neurological to me. It may not be. It could just be gas, or the alignment of the stars, or the climate. But the motor functions you are describing are, to me, serious ones. I don't often suggest western medical doctors. But in a neurological situation it would be a good idea to have it checked out.
In the meantime Neel's second point is a bull's eye. Work with an experienced teacher. And stop doing Sarvangasana until you can do it and receive the appropriate (and safe) effects it is well know for.
Edited by purnayoga 2007-09-20 12:33 AM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
    
| I agree with Neel and Gordon. Stop doing sarvangasana. Do not pass "go", do not collect anything. This is not a simple thing and you need to be very carefully observed by someone very competent. I normally would suggest sending photos, but I don't think that is a good idea in this case. Find a senior Iyengar teacher and perhaps have him/her look at you. They may say the same thing and not even want to observe you in the pose.
Here is the thing about the "chin lock" - most of us are in no way ready to do this. Most of us are tight across the back of the neck in shoulder stand and are already blocking the flow of breath, blood supply and nervous system there. Adding another blockage by deliberately "locking" the throat is asking for trouble. And don't let fitness fool you. BKS often makes a clear distinction between the adept student and the advanced student  |
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| Just an observation here.... what I find most interesting is that while sarvangasana is described as the "mother of all poses", the one pose to do if you're going to do any asana at all (i.e. most important), it is one of the most difficult to get "right". You'd think it could be more universally accessible for all its wonderful benefits... |
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| Thank you everyone for your comments. I want to update you all and address a few misconceptions.
I cannot afford any sort of rigorous medical exam. I would love to go to a neurologist but that's just not going to be possible for at least several years. I am quite destitute.
I would like to have a knowledgeable yogi to study with, but I again, can't afford it.
The Kundalini Yoga class is a pretty low intensity course I'm taking at my university. As others have noted, it is VERY different from the Iyengar yoga I was learning from Light on Yoga.
I'm not positive I'm doing it right, it just didn't seem, after reviewing, like I'm doing it wrong. Of course, without an instructor (until my kundalini course started, all my yoga was learned from a book), I have no concrete way of knowing if I'm right or wrong in my asanas.
I do the pose as described from Light On Yoga - laying in corpse pose, move my legs up and over my body until toes touch the floor behind me with my legs straight as I tuck my chin into the nook above my breastbone, rotate arms over my shoulders to lay under my legs & touch my toes, draw my abdomen up straight, rotate arms back down and put hands on back, lift legs straight up over body, hold while breathing deeply and navel gazing. Afterwards I usually move into the Plow, then the rest position with my knees by my ears for a few moments, then back to corpse pose to lay and breathe a while.
purnayoga, thanks for clarifying kulkarnn's comments on dropping kundalini.
I'm doing the chin lock as well as I can as described by Iyengar, and as necessitated by the pose. It may not be perfect, at times I've noticed the pressure he warns about when meeting the chin to the chest too low (below the nook). That's all he gives to it, perhaps the term means more to you than Iyengar implies to me? Have you read his descriptions in LOY? Not sure we're on the same page with that term. Anyway, I don't have scoliosis or any unusual spinal curve AFAIA.
I'm thinking of asking my kundalini instructor to critique my form, but I'm not sure if he is familiar enough with that flavor of yoga to be helpful enough, though I'm sure he'd try his best if he were to agree to a critique.
Previously, when I was doing Iyengar once or twice a day, and only did the sarvangasana after the entire routine (as laid out by Iyengar), the negative effects while still pronounced, were milder. This last time was the most dramatic it's ever been, and I hadn't done any other yoga immediately before doing the shoulder stand during my cool-down after working out. Also, in the past I always used a yoga mat on a hardwood floor, this time I was on a gym mat, much thicker, perhaps not enough support though?
Is this "flow" I feel from my thighs perhaps unique to the condition I'm experiencing, or do you guys get that flow or drain feeling also? |
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| Hi Tim,
I agree with most of the guy's here be careful with Sarvangasana.
My advice is really to stop doing the pose for the moment.
Until some teacher can spot you on it.
I know the main problem with yoga in the west is the cost.
So if you must play around with the pose, anyhow, a few pointers would be:
It' sounds like your relaxing in the pose which you should not do.
You have to keep the stomach strong lifting you feet towards the sky.
Which are called your Bandhas.
And a chin lock is questionable in this pose. It puts the neck into too vulnerable a position.
Try looking straight up skywards not at you feet, this will put the neck into a gentle arc.
A much safer place for the neck to be in.
But really the last point is don't do it till your clear you have got to the root of the problem.
Even if it take years there's no rush don't try and break your self with yoga.
If you bamage yourself while doing a practise the injury can go very deep
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Tim - do you mind saying where you are located? We may be able to point you to a teacher that could help. BKS has changed a great deal of his instructions over the years and now has almost everyone using blankets or other supports under the shoulders and upper arms. Here are two photos. Most people use more height than this.
The Master himself:
http://www.india-today.com/iplus/1999_3/grfx/107.jpg
Using dense foam blocks:
http://www.theblisspages.com/images2/mbs2006-048_sm.jpg
Your mention of the gym mats is helpful. I think it illustrates that the problem is in your neck. The sensation in your legs may be a bit of a red herring. I don't know. I still strongly suggest that you not do this pose on your own. If you decide to try it anyway, NO plough/halasana and NO karnipidasana/knees to ears. If you were my student, I would first send you to a senior teacher and then, with permission, probably teach this:
http://www.yogaartandscience.com/poses/inver/sarvch/files/page78_1.jpg
Please keep us up to date on how you are doing. It will help us with our own learning. |
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| Thanks for some clarifications Tim.
Light on Yoga, while considered by most as the Bible of Asana (and an absolutely brilliant piece of work) is not, in my mind a learn-at-home primer. It can be used as a reference though everything in it is not "correct". That is to say that even asana has changed a bit since it's publication. No disrespect to Iyengar at all. I just do not think the description of the pose should be a full substitute for live instruction. A book cannot see the student. Therefore the instructions given are ideal instructions.
In LOY, Sarvangasana is done (by Iyengar of course) on the floor without props. I absolutely positively would not teach this to most students currently coming to asana class here in the West. The pose should be done with several smooth folded blankets in such a way that the 7th cervical vertebra is supported across the folded edge of the stack. Students come up with feet on the wall first. Once they have demonstrated both proper and safe actions AND there is nothing in their physical body that contraindicates moving forward, then, and only then do they come away from the wall into the middle of the room. Tourist may not agree. But keep in mind I am a Purna Yoga teacher and not an Iyengar teacher. Even the text for Beginners there on page 206 does not mention that the head should not turn in the pose. In this way the book is a bit deceptive for those who've just picked it off the shelf.
Unlike Sirsasana this pose is not an agressive reaching up from the base of the pose. While the pose is an inversion, and in that way classified with Sarvangasana, its actions and energetics are opposite. Sirsasana is aspiration. Sarvangasana is rooting. Sirsasana is Yang. Sarvangasana is Yin. It is a calming pose. The pose is moving into the foundation.
As for cost, one cannot beg off on financials until they've first offered to trade out at a local studio. I know we are always looking for volunteers and those willing to help us in helping others we are more than willing to help back. So I'm advocating an approach to your local studio for barter or trade. If you choose not to, that is fine. However at that point it would not be the cost that was your impediment.
Edited by purnayoga 2007-09-20 8:08 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| I could not possibly disagree with you, Gordon I know we have had this discussion before, but do you have students walk the feet up the wall or take the feet overhead onto the wall? I don't remember. I do both, but tend toward swinging feet over to the wall as the other way seems to be extremely challenging to keep everything (blankets, mat, etc.) in order and many students end up falling off the blankets.
And yes, BKS sometimes points to his photos from LOY and comments that he was a young man "showing off" and has a few poses where he insists that we not copy them. |
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| I'm in Kansas City.
I was talking to a friend about this last night, and turns out she does yoga at a studio around here. She recommended her yogi, apparently he's been doing this 50 years, looks about 40 but is 70-something. She said he's really good, so I'm going to see if he can evaluate me probably week after next. |
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Location: London, England |
Edited by Nick 2007-09-22 1:34 PM
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| The setup involves folding the mat over the blankets (or foamy things preferably). In that way the student has traction between the shoulders and the prop. We take them up with thier feet walking up the wall such that the back body is facing the wall in the pose with the knees at 90ยบ
tourist - 2007-09-20 7:57 PM
I could not possibly disagree with you, Gordon I know we have had this discussion before, but do you have students walk the feet up the wall or take the feet overhead onto the wall? I don't remember. I do both, but tend toward swinging feet over to the wall as the other way seems to be extremely challenging to keep everything (blankets, mat, etc. ) in order and many students end up falling off the blankets.
And yes, BKS sometimes points to his photos from LOY and comments that he was a young man "showing off" and has a few poses where he insists that we not copy them. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| We just had another discussion about the pros and cons of the various ways to go into shoulder stand. The consensus was that there was probably no perfect way and that we have to continue to watch our students and do what works for us as teachers and what serves the student best.
Tim, I am so glad to hear you have found someone to hep you out. Let's hope he is "the" teacher for you! |
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Strange problem with Sarvangas
