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| Hi. I've been away for a while.
I've recovered from some old racewalking injuries and have been spending most of my mental and emotional energies to reviving my walking.
Also, for some reason, my motivation toward yoga has lessened once I took yoga-fit teacher training and my home practice has virtually vanished. I still attend 2-4 classes a week, and sub from time to time.
Here is the question: I've noticed that my teacher's poses have gotten progressively worse (e. g., her shin is NOT perpendicular to the floor in any of the Warriors, her hip is dropping big-time in pigeon, etc.
Do I have a responsibility to say anything to her, or is this one of those "keep your mouth closed" sorts of things?
regards
ollie
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| No, you should ask your teacher with a sincere request :
that you notice change in her form. Is there anything she wants to tell you about this, etc.
Before, asking you should give her meal with a respect and flowers with a smile.
And, do the same to your wife before you start the above operation!!!
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| Thanks Neel.  Being gentle has never been my strong suit. |
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| my student went through this with me.
i had stopped doing a particular group of postures that i really like, that i would often teach and demonstrate. he was honestly concerned as to why.
it was due to some discomforts that i had while doing it, and also what i was seeing in my students. when we traveled to my teacher, i asked for his assistance, he offered it, and i worked on it. my student helped me work on it (he is one of my teachers, that is, one of the teachers that i trained and now a teacher himself). and now i do not have that problem and now i teach it too.
it could be anything, but a concerned approach is a good one.
yesterday, my student noticed that my hamstrings are *very* tight and that i was fussy about it. LOL! |
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| That meas I escaped. You were very gentle to me in Austin. But, again, your wife and daugther were present. It seems they have good influence on you. How is your handstand coming up?
ollie - 2007-09-24 8:48 PM
Thanks Neel. Being gentle has never been my strong suit. |
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| The concept of yoga ,the idea of yoga,the understanding of what yoga is, is very much different now.especially in the west.Its not just about poses.
It is said in indian culture that submission of ego is very essential if you want to learn from the other.No teacher in the world ,in any department is perfect,he or she cannot know everything.But what a student must do is,try to learn what the teacher knows well. Its about being silent and listening.
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| The answer to your question Ollie depends upon the nature of the relationship you have with your teacher. |
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| Hey Ollie, so good to hear from you. I wondered where you been. Good luck with your situation.
Shelly |
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| Hi Ollie, sorry to hear about the drop-off since the YF training. Having gone through virtually the same thing, I totally understand. Hope you get your groove back, or maybe find a new one (which is what I did at that point). |
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| Thanks everyone. Neel: I haven't practiced very much, so I'll need to hold myself accountable. 
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| I would be kinda embarrassed.
I honestly try to teach only postures that I can do. However, I will teach a few ashtanga postures that I'm not always able to demonstrate. Usually I demo the modified.
It is a hard call to make.
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| i teach postures that i can't do.
often, students will bring in a picture, we'll experiment, and then i'll teach how to do it. i can usually "see" more things about the alignment in it then they can.
i also teach modified versions of poses i can't do, and then i'll teach those students who may be ready how to do the full version of the pose (since i intellectually know the next step).
i figure that most of my students will be 'better' than me. and it's true. most of them are. |
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| One of my first teachers was like that and she was wonderful. I never really thought about it until I started teaching.
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| i really want my students to go father than me, to be better than i am in every way. i want to be a stepping stone in this, you know?
i talk to them constantly about 'joining the dialogue' of yoga. when they ask me a question, i'll often ask it right back! typically, we know more than we think we know, and sometimes just having a dialogue about it makes everything clearer. |
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| zoebird - 2007-09-25 3:39 PM
i really want my students to go father than me, to be better than i am in every way. i want to be a stepping stone in this, you know?
Which is actually pretty rare. I was reading recently that the three attachments which are hardest to break of those between parent and child, lovers, and teacher and student. Often times teachers will hold back their students, at least partially subconsciously because they don't want to "lose" them.
i talk to them constantly about 'joining the dialogue' of yoga. when they ask me a question, i'll often ask it right back! typically, we know more than we think we know, and sometimes just having a dialogue about it makes everything clearer.
Yeah, I usually begin this little ritual with my favorite personal mantra "I don't know". It's amazing the sorts of doors you can open with this little beauty. |
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| Just my 2 cents, but I would not mention it. She either doesn't know her leg is not level, or she can't do it. If she doesn't know, then she will learn it in the proper setting, like a training or a yoga class. Or, one day, something will open up in her hip, or whatever, and she will find the pose. If she does know, and still teaches it, I think that's ok too. Even though my training says not to demo if you can't do it, I will demo and say, "this is not finished for me, I am working on opening my chest a little more" then I'll be cueing correct alignment. I think this only shows I'm human, and what's wrong with that? I am working, just like they are.
I think the best thing to do is to practice your yoga and let the teacher teach the best she can. If it bothers you to the point that you think she's not a good teacher, then it's probably best to find another teacher. If it's fine, just this one thing, then I'd let it go.
Have you played it out in your head if you were the teacher and a student commented to you that you were teaching something in non-perfect form? Only you know the relationship and how you'd approach her. If you reverse it, is it a good thing or a bad thing?
One more thing. I despise eagle balance pose. I don't like feeling all crossed and curled up. I much prefer something like dancer where I feel very open. So, I'll say, "I don't like eagle and I'm not very good at it. But I love you all, so I'm going to stand up here and look silly trying to teach it b/c I know some of you love to practice eagle."  |
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| Have you played it out in your head if you were the teacher and a student commented to you that you were teaching something in non-perfect form?
I prefer to be told if I am making a mistake because how I do the asanas are important to me.
Or, for example, when I am teaching mathematics, I don't mind it if a bright math student shows me an alternate (but correct) way to do a problem.
But I tend to react differently than most, so long as the person offering the suggestions knows what they are talking about. |
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| i really do think it depends upon the relationship.
i know that you, ollie, are also 'friends' with your teacher. it's not a criticism of her personally, nor are you saying she's a bad teacher. it may be that you're curious. looking at and aligning people is something 'new' for you since your training. prior to that, you might not have noticed even though the situation may have been the same.
i encourage students asking me questions about what i'm doing. i field a lot of questions about different alignment schools and different modifications. students come to me from all over, from many different backgrounds. some teachers emphasize alignment and some don't. of those who do, some follow different alignment schools. and even for those who do and are of the same alignment school, they may prefer different modifications that i do.
i should also say that i rarely demo. i describe the posture, use others as a demo, or if most of the people aren't 'getting' it, then i demo. i'll point out my alignment errors as well.
for example, i was teaching a sequence last nite after having eaten dinner. i need to eat before this class because of scheduling. i hardly demo in this class (which is ok, it's an intermediate-advanced class), but then they asked me to demo a sequence. i said "the alignment will be off because i just ate." and they're ok with that. the alignment was off. but, they got the idea--they knew the poses, they just wanted clarity on the transitions.
questions are always allowed in my classroom. anyone can ask anything. |
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| ollie - 2007-09-24 4:38 PM her shin is NOT perpendicular to the floor in any of the Warriors, her hip is dropping big-time in pigeon, etc. Ollie, going back to your original question, how is her shin misaligned? Knee past the ankle or knee not bent enough? And is it the same on both sides? Might just be she's got some injury or achiness she's taking care of, and doesn't want to draw attention to herself by pointing out she isn't going fully into some poses. Personally, if it were me as the teacher, and I knew I had some physical limitations (as I always do), I'd make it a point to point that fact out to the class, that I'm just not physically able to demonstrate the pose to its fullest expression at this time, so that they use my verbal cues to supplement my demonstration of those specific poses. I really doubt that she's just gotten "lazy" in her poses, and I would bet she is aware of her drop-off in form. I'd ask her about it, for sure, with the intent of expressing concern for her well-being, if I were comfortable enough with her to begin with (as I believe you are with your teacher, as you've said). |
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| you know, i tell my students a lot about the importance of modifictaions.
i would say that probably 98% of the postures that i do regularly are modified. there are very few that i do 100% correct all of the time, and without a modification of some sort.
i think that this is important to tell students. not necessarily to say for a specific posture, but rather to say for all postures. i find that for most students, this encourages them to modify, to find the right alignment for them without the spectrum of modifications available, rather than them striving for something that they can't get into yet, and that in the trying, they'll likely injure themselves.
i find that when they hear that "the teacher" who "looks awesome doing yoga" (which is what a student said about me on her blog) does 98% of postures modified in some way, then they feel comfortable modifying themselves, and they recognize that we're all working on it (like Kym said). |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
    
| As others have said, you might at some point feel ok saying "are you all right? You poses just don't look the same lately and I am concerned that you are not quite 100%" or words to that effect. |
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| Thanks for the replies.
Her shin: it is not perpendicular with the ground; the knee is well behind her foot (i. e., knee is not bent enough) I don't think that she is injured; I get the impression that she has gone away from being a student of yoga and has "gone to the dark side" (morphed into a fitness instructor who specializes in teaching yoga; my guess is that she doesn't really focus on her OWN practice).
Since we've grown further apart recently, I really don't know what her goals are, so I'll just keep my mouth shut and try my best to do the poses correctly. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Actually, I almost hestitated to not post to this thread because I don't want to piss anyone off. However, I'm feeling frisky today,
Ollie, its non of your business. Your teacher has a seperate practice and should be allowed to modify her practice to whatever she deems fit. We all have different days. We don't always perform the same, we are constantly evolving and should have the freedom to do so. If you say something to her, you are only going to disturb her inner peace and it may have an impact on her in a negative way. Besides, you should focus on yourself and not let your teachers practice be a "distraction" for you. Get rid of any judgement you may have and just observe whats going on.
I'll give you an example. My teacher is 60 years old. I've seen her go through many changes over the past few years. She had an accident that had surgery involved a couple of years ago. She's modified postures to heal that injury. I've watched her modify and completely recover. I've also watched her do headstands less than a month ago...it's incredible. I think that its a personal matter and your teacher needs her space to do her own practice. I'm sure she has her own guru's and teachers that she works with.
Traditionally, the teacher must be respected by the student. I believe this falls into that category. It's not our place to micro-manage everyone's practice.
Please take my words with great sincerity and this is not a personal attack.
Edited by Cyndi 2007-09-27 11:35 AM
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| Since we've grown further apart recently, I really don't know what her goals are, so I'll just keep my mouth shut and try my best to do the poses correctly
i think that this makes sense and is respectful of her and of your relationship.
cyndi:
i agree with you that we needn't micro-manage everyone's practice.
i also think we're talking about two different subjects. it is one thing to criticize or try to bring someone into "alignment" with what "I think it should be"--that is definitely micromanaging.
but i think it's another thing to sincerely question what is going on if it is different from one's experience, or if one is concerned about the teacher, or if one is taking it as an opportunity for self knowledge/learning.
in the case of your teacher, she is adapting her practice to her physical experience. i think that i might ask her specific questions about modifications--such as "why did you choose that modification?" or "how are you finding that helpful specifically?" so that i can learn from her experience and her process of healing. i think that this is respectful--because it acknowledges her practice as being sincere, dynamic, personal, etc, but it also provides those of us observing her with a great pattern to learn from.
this is why i bring up when and how i modify things for myself when teaching. it demonstrates to students the importance and value of modification, so that they feel encouraged to modify the postures to suit their own needs. and, it also creates a process of mutual respect. i often say to them "these are the modifications that i find work, but some of you will discover other modifications that work better for you--and then we all learn."
i've asked students "why are you choosing that modification?" this is not to micromanage, but to understand where they are coming from or what they are working on. i learn a lot from this process, and i find that students do too. i've actually started to incorporate some modifications into my teaching tht i've seen brand new beginners just do intuitively. it's very cool.
so, i think it is important to leave people their space and not micromanage, but i also think that it can be appropriate to ask questions for the purpose of deeper learning between the two individuals.
i think that in ollie's case, having asserted his position about her possibly being on the "dark side" that this is definitely one of those 'respect the teacher' moments and keep the mouth shut.
if there was another motive behind it (learning, genuine concern, etc), then it might be something to ask about.
btw, for the most part, i leave folks alone. i simply assume they're either A. from a different alignment school or B. modifying to suit their needs. If i see a modification that it hink looks particularly cool or helpful, or might be beneficial to me or one of my students, i'll ask that person to teach it to me and perhaps ask them how they came to it. that's just genuine curiousity.
i mean, i would be burning with curiousity to talk to your teacher about her process! |
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| Cyndi, thanks for your post.
On one level, you are right. But on another, I completely disagree.
One of the reasons I choose the friends that I do is that they tend to bring out the best in me.
For example, many teachers have given me corrections which have enabled me to get more out of my practice. In ultramarathoning, many other fellow athletes have implored me to "get back out there" when I've fallen into bad stretches (times where it feels as if you can't go on). Without their encouragement, I might not have had the modest amount of success that I've had.
Even in my professional life, I've benefited from others giving me a needed "kick in the butt" from time to time.
But, in this case, talking with everyone has made me think "what would be my motive in saying something". I know what the motive would be, and I know that it is useless to ask someone to be what they are not.
THAT is why I keep my mouth shut.
But...what do I say if I decide to stop coming to this class? I will be asked. I want to be honest, but have no desire to be hurtful.
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my teacher
