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| I started out practicing this pose with my back against a wall. I then slowly pushed my knees down until they were down on the ground, and then hold them there for a minute. Then I put a 3/4 inch board under my feet and do the same thing again. In this way I have gotten as far as being able to get an eight inch yoga block under my feet, and get my knees down to the ground. After I did that, I would go away from the wall and hold Baddha konasana without the aid of the wall.
I've recently been able to become liberated from the wall, and to slowly work my way into the asana over the course of about six or seven minutes, and then hold it for a few minutes. My question then is this. My practice is becoming more and more integrated with being continually slower, more precise and more meditative. I want to try sitting in baddhakonasana for a set period of time...perhaps starting with about twenty minutes...and not try to push my legs down at all...just maybe sit my hands in anjali mudri, and practice breathing (not necessarily pranayama, but just slow breathing and general stillness). I am wondering if this became kind of a daily habit, if my knees would eventually just sort of organically fall to the floor...instead of having to really hold them there with a lot of vim and sweat. I guess that is kind of my yogic fantasy with regards to this pose...that someone could walk in, lift up my knee...drop it...and just kind of watch it flop to the floor like a large strand of soggy spaghetti. Kandasana is also one of my big yoga goals...and since it seems like the "next step" from Baddha konasana. I want to really make a lot of progress to perfecting Baddha konasana. Any insight into all of this will be deeply appreciated. Take Care.
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| Sorry about something... The ahimsa angle in my original post has to do with letting my knees naturally fall instead of forcing them as I said "with a lot of vim and sweat". Ahimsa seems to me to a really, really loaded word...and although I understand it basically means do no harm, getting the full gist of its almost infinite nuances seems to me to be a real lifetime process. Right now, I claim ignorance as to getting the full gist of it at all. So I am wondering if Baddha konasana practiced this way will ultimately be sucessful. Thanks again. |
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| Dear IF: I like what you are doing and I am proud of you and your practice and goals. You will surely do better and better this way. If you really want knees to easily touch the ground, relatively quickly, you need to continue the practice and also intensify it to your best. To your best means considering your other duties, rest, food, work, etc. etc.
And, Ahimsaa has nothing to do with Baddhakonasana. And, to understand and obtain Ahimsaa is not as difficult as you think. You are completely capable of it as of now. For that you have to study Philosophy and NOT an asana.
And, your future goal of kandaasana is admirable, too. But, you should first wait for Baddha to be achieved.
My suggestion is to continue your fantastic practice steadily and smile. |
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| Ahimsaa has nothing to do with Baddhakonasana. And, to understand and obtain Ahimsaa is not as difficult as you think. You are completely capable of it as of now. For that you have to study Philosophy and NOT an asana.
I guess here is what I am getting to with Ahimsa as it relates to Asana practice. When I first started doing yoga, I got ahead of myself, and began to force myself into padmasana...against all of the screaming of heaven and earth to please stop, I kept doing it and quickly thrashed the ligaments in the sides of my knees. They took about six months to heal. So that seems like doing violence to myself...not in the spirit of Ahimsa.
From reading yoga posts here and there however, I get the impression that there are people who seem to believe that Ahimsa...as it relates to the execution of asana anyway...means that if you feel any burning in the muscles, or any discomfort at all...ever...ever...ever, then you should stop immediately, and run fleeing from the yoga room. Anyway, I'm being a little bit hyperbolic. That is what I mean however, when I talk about Ahimsa as it relates to Asana...not hurting myself by being a dumb brute to my body. |
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Expert Yogi
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| Neel is talking about the philosophical aspect of ahimsa. Of course, nobody wants you to hurt yourself. Please tell me you are not pushing on your knees to get them to the floor, but on the top thigh? Are there any yoga poses that don't involve making mincemeat out of your knees that you are striving for? I am not being sarcastic, just wondering why you are focused on the knee intensive poses when you have already done a number on them. Are you working with a teacher? |
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| Incorporating, blending, or melding yama and niyama into asana practice is a way to facilitate moving yama and niyama into one's life. The practice of ahimsa on the mat is lovely but relatively hollow unless it is brought into one's life off the mat. In this way, asana is often a relfection of who we are and illustrates areas of our selves and our lives that we might consider transforming (or changing, if that term is more suitable for you).
Baddha Konasana is not a dropping of the knees. It is however an opening of the hips. When the hips do not open or will not open or are only partly open then the action(s) must go elsewhere in the body. This is why students frequently damage themselves in Padmasana. If the hips are open then the pose (padmasana)is safe. When the hips are not, the knees are compromised. So the knees do not flop (in Baddha Konasana) but the hips may be opened such that the knees, shins, outer thighs come to the floor.
There is some growth in the physical body via Baddha Konasana and that is a worhtwhile pursuit. However it might be more sound, from a biomechanical perspective, to think of baddha konasana as a barometer for the nature of the hip opening (and a primer for the groins to be prepared for more rigorous asana).
So for me and the students I teach, in terms of asana, the "progress" mentioned in Baddha Konasana is often cultivated through the hip series, eka pada supta virasana, Vanarasana etcetera.
Edited by purnayoga 2007-10-02 8:20 PM
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| There is nothing wrong with what you want to do, that is progress without hurting yourself. And, that is great. But, that is NOT ahimsaa. Ahimsaa is a term which means NON injury to OTHERS. One does not generally injure oneself intentionally, except while being too ambitious. So, if one decides to achieve perfect padmaasana in one hour, when not ready for it, one is injurying oneself, due to overdoing it. But, that is NOT called Himsaa. And, not doing so is NOT called Ahimsaa. Himsaa means INTENTIONAL injury or knowingly injury to others. Generally, one does not intentionally injure oneself, and definitely not when one is doing Yoga exercise to gain better fitness.
Ahimsaa deals with NOT injuring others knowingly so that all the people become your friends, whether those people are good or bad.
Iyengar_Fan - 2007-10-02 6:27 PM
Ahimsaa has nothing to do with Baddhakonasana. And, to understand and obtain Ahimsaa is not as difficult as you think. You are completely capable of it as of now. For that you have to study Philosophy and NOT an asana.
I guess here is what I am getting to with Ahimsa as it relates to Asana practice. When I first started doing yoga, I got ahead of myself, and began to force myself into padmasana...against all of the screaming of heaven and earth to please stop, I kept doing it and quickly thrashed the ligaments in the sides of my knees. They took about six months to heal. So that seems like doing violence to myself...not in the spirit of Ahimsa.
From reading yoga posts here and there however, I get the impression that there are people who seem to believe that Ahimsa...as it relates to the execution of asana anyway...means that if you feel any burning in the muscles, or any discomfort at all...ever...ever...ever, then you should stop immediately, and run fleeing from the yoga room. Anyway, I'm being a little bit hyperbolic. That is what I mean however, when I talk about Ahimsa as it relates to Asana...not hurting myself by being a dumb brute to my body. |
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| purnayoga - 2007-10-02 8:19 PM
"Baddha Konasana is not a dropping of the knees. It is however an opening of the hips. When the hips do not open or will not open or are only partly open then the action(s) must go elsewhere in the body. This is why students frequently damage themselves in Padmasana. If the hips are open then the pose (padmasana)is safe. When the hips are not, the knees are compromised."-purnayoga
What Gordon (purnayoga) is mentioning here is EXTREEMLY important. If your knees do not go to the floor in Baddha Konasana (Cobbler), then you should not even attempt Padmasana (Full Lotus) as you must twist your knees to get your feet on top of your thighs. (Your knees are hinge type joints and should never be twisted.) Only after developing the necessary hip openess can you do Padmasana without injuring your knees. If you want to do Padmasana, work on Baddha Konasana. |
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| Thanks for the replies to this thread. Sorry for any confusion about what I am doing with asana practice right now. At this point, my hips are open enough to do baddha konasana, and padmasana. The injury with padmasana was early in my practice before I even understood at all that padmasana...or baddhakonasana had anything to do with hips...nay...before I understood anything at all. That was quite some time ago.
I really do appreciate everyone's thoughts about "ahimsa". It is all very informative.
As a side note...this board seems like it has better people on it than the last one I went to. So thanks for everything.
P.S. Someone asked about a teacher. I have been going to an Iyengar institute. I can't however, afford to go very often. The time factor is difficult also. I conduct my own private practice early in the morning before the rest of my family wakes up. Once the day has began, it is very hard to get away. My wife is pregnant, and we have a ten month old. So I go to work, but need to get home to help her iout, and support her through being pregnant. Anyway, God is gracious, and the right teacher will come along at the right time I suppose. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| IF - good for you! At this time of your life, a yoga practice can help keep you sane  Enjoy your baby and the one to come! |
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| Tourist - Thank you for your kind words. Kids are great, but they can be a handful, so I'll take any kind word I can get! Take Care. |
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Baddha konasana and Ahimsa
