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Your most difficult pose?
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Posted 2007-10-19 10:48 AM (#98235 - in reply to #97581)
Subject: RE: Your most difficult pose?


actually, i find the posture requires and therefor builds concentration, which is the basis for meditation. it also is a strong heart opening posture, and i find a great deal of benefit from working these heart opening postures.

if i was doing the posture to "show off" or without the mindset of what yoga's purpose is, that is, without the spiritual component, then it would be 'gymnastics.'

but when i do arm balances, i find myself confronting many aspects of my ego and emotional patterns, developing concentration, and working on the heart charka very deeply. i find that i am more courageous--emotionally and spiritually--that i am also more capable of expressing my care for others through my hands and work (arms and therefore work being an extension out of the heart chakra), and so on.

i find that many postures that others will "poo poo" as mere gymnastics are dynamic expressions within the body of the spiritual experience.
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Posted 2007-10-19 10:50 AM (#98237 - in reply to #97581)
Subject: RE: Your most difficult pose?


oh, and i don't find it dangerous either.

of course, it can be if someone isn't ready to do the posture.

and, it's not as if it's a required pose. so no one "has to" do it.

but it is a part of the tradition, and i assume that each posture has purpose and meaning, and so if one wants to do it, and can, and does it with the right attitude, then i see no reason to avoid it.

and, as i said, i enjoy doing it a great deal. and i get a lot of benefit from it.
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Cyndi
Posted 2007-10-19 10:53 AM (#98238 - in reply to #98237)
Subject: RE: Your most difficult pose?



Expert Yogi

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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC
I showed off with a "camel" the other day after drinking a couple of glasses of WINE,

Me Bad Yogi, Bad Yogi, Bad Yogi,

Although.......maybe NOT...I was demonstrating, sharing my yoga experience because someone asked......It was just bad timing with the wine and all,

Edited by Cyndi 2007-10-19 10:55 AM
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Posted 2007-10-19 11:26 AM (#98250 - in reply to #97581)
Subject: RE: Your most difficult pose?


i would see that as demonstrating for sure, cyndi.

i tell my beginner's this--'once you start doing yoga, always wear pants to cocktail parties!"

people always thought it was funny, but then one woman said that she was asked at a cocktail party what her favorite pose was. she wanted to demonstrate it, because they weren't "getting" the description, but it wasn't a pose that one should do in a dress!

she came back to class and shared how i was right--one should always wear pants to cocktail parties. she went to her next party (it was the holiday season) wearing pants, and demonstrated about 3-4 postures as people asked.

at the new year, she ended up bringing a lot of new students to the class!

so, i don't think that's an ego thing. i find that when i'm in class and i become self judging while watching another student, or i become competitive, or i want to impress the teacher with my ability--then i'm no longer doing yoga. that's just ego.

but what's cool is, if i can recognize and acknowledge that, then even "showing off" has taught me something. LOL!
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tubeseeker
Posted 2007-10-19 12:34 PM (#98259 - in reply to #97581)
Subject: RE: Your most difficult pose?


zoebird and cyndi
a thought to myself on the previous two posts

people will ask questions and demonstrations of me. The heart will want to show them, so I will show them. My ego kicks in when I offer more then they are ready for, more then they have asked for. but I also cannot expect myself to be perfect.
balance, not always easy, not always hard
seeker
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ollie
Posted 2007-10-19 5:28 PM (#98285 - in reply to #98250)
Subject: RE: Your most difficult pose?


zoebird - 2007-10-19 10:26 AM

i would see that as demonstrating for sure, cyndi.

i tell my beginner's this--'once you start doing yoga, always wear pants to cocktail parties!"



I already do that.
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OrangeMat
Posted 2007-10-19 6:03 PM (#98289 - in reply to #98285)
Subject: RE: Your most difficult pose?


ollie - 2007-10-19 5:28 PM
zoebird - 2007-10-19 10:26 AM i would see that as demonstrating for sure, cyndi. i tell my beginner's this--'once you start doing yoga, always wear pants to cocktail parties!"
I already do that.

That's because you're not a beginner!

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Thomas
Posted 2007-10-21 9:51 AM (#98348 - in reply to #97581)
Subject: RE: Your most difficult pose?


Hardest pose? The one that few will admit, A.K.A. in denial over.

That most difficult posture is the sensation of practice immediately following injury.

Yes it happens to us all, and yet like lemmings I/we run back to the studio the next day with the excuse to “test” (or work around) the injured body part, or worse yet “heal” it with yoga.

Torn tissue takes days to heal, torn tendons take weeks, and need I go on?

Experience is a brutal teacher, from whom I have learned far too often, fool that I am.

It is a fine line between approaching the “limit” and pushing to the actual “limit”.
Yoga is about body awareness not Asana achievement agreed?

I believe that it is a true metric of the misplaced values (read lunacy) of our Yoga community that a thread with the label “Most Difficult Pose” is the over represented with views and replies, i.e. most highly responded to…

So many threads on this Forum poke fun at “other” aggressive pursuits that are competition driven.
Is yoga really about competition with oneself?
Maybe not, your thoughts?

Namaste; Thomas
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tourist
Posted 2007-10-21 12:25 PM (#98354 - in reply to #98348)
Subject: RE: Your most difficult pose?



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Thomas - agreed on the returning after injury thing. That IS tough. I crave handstands to "prove" my shoulder is better, but resist the down dogs and other preparatory poses that will actually strengthen it. I don't know that it is ego, but it certainly is human nature.

As for aggression, I disagree. As yoga (asana or otherwise) practitioners, one of the things we are developing in ourselves is discrimination. It is useful and indeed imperative, that we know where our limitations are and how to work to overcome them. If I don't know which poses physically are the most challenging for me, I am a) not paying attention and b) about to hurt myself (perhaps again, if my injury is asana-induced).

The "difficult pose" question comes up a lot here, usually from newbies, as did this one. Although s/he doesn't say how long s/he has been practicing, this was a one-time poster, so we have to answer from that point of view. I have actually been following this thread with interest, as the conversation usually quickly skews toward getting quite philosophical and the answers run to things like tadasana and savasana. Once we start in the direction you are going ("you shouldn't be talking about difficulty at all" and "real" yoga isn't about asana - and in many ways I agree with this. Don't get me wrong here!)), we tend to be accused of bullying the newbies.

But on your first point, again, I totally agree. Our friend Steve Thornley has written eloquently on this in the past. He has had enough injuries for a whole gaggle of yogins! (What is the term for a whole gaggle of yogins? A flock? A herd?)
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Kym
Posted 2007-10-21 12:29 PM (#98356 - in reply to #97581)
Subject: RE: Your most difficult pose?


I think it's simply body awareness that we reconginze we have challenging asanas. I'm not competing with myself, I'm learning and moving on in my journey. It's ok to do that. I also challenge myself with the other limbs, lately I've been focusing on pratyahara, is that wrong?
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brian48026
Posted 2007-10-22 10:17 AM (#98392 - in reply to #97581)
Subject: RE: Your most difficult pose?


While I think that my practice has made great strides lately (I've only been practicing for about 10 months total), I still have a lot of difficulty staying focused, breathing properly, and sinking into Parivrtta Parsva Konasana, or revolved prayer twist. It still never feels right. Sometimes I keep the back leg down and it helps slightly, but my breath still isn't as deep as I want it to be.

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Posted 2007-10-22 12:29 PM (#98404 - in reply to #98392)
Subject: RE: Your most difficult pose?


This thread brought this excerpt from "Yoga - The Art of Balance" to mind:

Why do you want to do advanced or difficult poses? Is it egotism? Is it competition? Are you willing to injure yourself for a fleeting ego boost? The reason to do a pose is for its benefit. If you are not clear about the benefit of a pose, you may want to omit it until there is a practical reason to include it and work on it. Be honest with yourself. Just as you don’t need a complicated tool to hammer a nail into a board, you don’t need a complicated pose to stretch your hamstrings. Once your hamstrings are stretched, you don’t need an exotic pose to stretch them even more. “More” is not balance. Many ballet dancers, gymnasts, and contortionists end up with permanent injuries to their spines and joints. Don’t over-do flexibility. Moderation is important in all aspects of Yoga.

Many extreme poses can lead to permanent injuries later in life, so just because you are not feeling pain right now does not mean that repetition will not cause damage. As in carpal tunnel syndrome, the damage is a result of repetition. Always be extremely careful with your neck and your knees. They are the two areas that are frequently injured as a result of Yoga poses. The point of Yoga practice is awareness and health. If your ego requires more, find it elsewhere, not in your Yoga.

Try not to think of Yoga poses as something that you will attain in the future. It is much more useful to look at Yoga poses the same way as breathing air, drinking water, and eating food. These are all basic necessities of life. Cats and dogs know this and do Yoga poses throughout the day. You don’t try to attain more and more complex or advanced water drinking techniques. As you become more flexible, you may need new poses to stretch your muscles. That doesn’t make these new poses better in any way. Once you are at your own healthy flexibility level, you only need to maintain that level. There is really no point in trying to go further as there is no benefit in being hyper-flexible and it can stretch your ligaments, making your joints unstable. The more flexible you are, the less strength you have and vice versa. If you must have a goal, that goal should be balance. Yoga poses are tools for us to learn about ourselves, not trophies to hang on the wall.
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tourist
Posted 2007-10-22 6:52 PM (#98431 - in reply to #98392)
Subject: RE: Your most difficult pose?



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Great quote, jim! Brian - parivrtta parsvakonasana will never feel "right" as far as I am concerned. Tha is one crazy, twisty pose!
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Posted 2007-10-24 2:26 PM (#98566 - in reply to #97581)
Subject: RE: Your most difficult pose?


i suppose it will be considered 'unyogic' to say this--but i've never had a yoga injury, so i've never felt the need to rush back to class. . .and beyond this, i'm very rarely injured anyway, or when i have been, i've been happy to take breaks and ease back into asana practice.

but, it's been such a part of my life for so long (since i was a small child) and i watched my mother as a yogini and an athlete, that it just made sense to rest and then work with the injury when it arises.

repetitive motion injuries are such an important thing to consider--as jim's quote points out. this is why i feel that alignment is so important, and why i'm continually working on the most basic postures before advancing into more challenging or unusual postures, and i'm very cautious as to when i practice them based on how i'm feeling.

and there is also this unique experience of coming and going. some days, certain basic postures are very simple (and joyous for that), and other days, they're very difficult. there are days where i can do one 'difficult' posture, but the following day, i can't. i don't take this as a self judgement or a problem--it's usually an interesting observation.

beyond this, there are reasons why certain postures are very difficult for me--and it's largely emotionally. i joked this past weekend--at the retreat--that i'm simply not emotionally ready to make my own bread. it's important to recognize these kinds of boundaries too, and it's one of those things that makes handstand so difficult for me. For tourist, it may be the physical aspect of the shoulder. . .but for me it's the emotional aspect--the fear of falling over and hurting myself--that makes the posture difficult for me.

----

as to my original response, i mentioned that forward bends were very difficult lately. yesterday, i had a deep tissue massage at the massage school, and i asked for particular attention on my hamstrings, shins, and upper traps and neck on the left side. i got a whole body massage, of course, but my left side was needing some extra work.

during the massage, i discovered--via the sensations that the massage was giving--that my left side has a lot of "bunching" in the muscle--a knot even--but the right side seems to have it more bound up in the sinew, the connective tissue.

what was interesting was that, as a student massage therapist, he was very interested in how i was understanding and interpreting different sensation, and making a catalogue himself of what he was experiencing through his hands. we had a good dialogue about it.

anway, i went to practice later that day after the massage (which i normally do after deep tissue work, i also drink a lot of water to help release the lymph, etc), and i noticed that my hamstirngs were more open, but also that i could take attention to how i was entering different postures so that i could do more work at the sinew level, or at certain heads of the hamstring, etc.

today, of course, i feel completely bruised and battered, and the AM practice gave me a lot of information about those hamstrings. of course, being morning, they're always a bit tighter, but i got a lot more information about the sinew and muscle by working with it this am in a slow way.

it's fascinating to me.

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Cyndi
Posted 2007-10-24 2:52 PM (#98570 - in reply to #98566)
Subject: RE: Your most difficult pose?



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It is fascinating ZB. Our bodies are constantly going through changes. My ankle is healing quite nicely. Today's Child's pose was much better. I discovered that when I come into it with my knees closed, it helped release the pressure off the ankle versus with the knees spread apart somewhat. Japanese sitting position is still a small challenge, but definitely there is much improvement. I'm still loving Down Dogs and Bridge for my ankle, it feels so good.
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Posted 2007-10-24 2:54 PM (#98571 - in reply to #97581)
Subject: RE: Your most difficult pose?


that's really awesome, cyndi!
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Cyndi
Posted 2007-10-24 2:57 PM (#98573 - in reply to #98571)
Subject: RE: Your most difficult pose?



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Thank you ZB. It is awesome that you can go through a severe sprained ankle and still do your yoga asanas...with NO pain meds....just breathing and stretching...very nice,
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