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opening the heart chakra?
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tallpretzel
Posted 2007-10-22 10:37 PM (#98445)
Subject: opening the heart chakra?


How to??? I'm really struggling with Camel in my Bikram practice, and was told that was the reason. ??
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kulkarnn
Posted 2007-10-23 8:21 AM (#98470 - in reply to #98445)
Subject: RE: opening the heart chakra?


ask your teacher please.
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emptyfull
Posted 2008-09-22 1:15 PM (#110999 - in reply to #98445)
Subject: RE: opening the heart chakra?


---------------------------- You Are The Heart; there is no thing to open (that is a concept) - believe this.

Simplify, Simplify, Simplify.

Any structure is a structure that was created by another who had not realized, or, it is another's attempt to share the realized within the dream of forms, or to individuated beings (people).

The ego began to assume "things" were truth and thus concrete illusions were erected that are then mile-markers along illusory "paths".

The direct way is to observe and know your mind and what is within YOU to Know. Follow your breath and "sit" in the silence between your thoughts. This is who/what you are. The SPACE (again, this is only a word describing the indescribable) is what you seek and no-thing else.

Continually bring your awareness back to this space (usually occupied by the breath) until you naturally be come this! Don't "think" about paths or teachings or others or gurus or gods or any thing, and just sit and discover who you ARE.

Again, let the structures and paths now go and know thy self through observing the life YOU are experiencing that NO other has.

You have found me, thus this is what I am and what I share so take it or leave it because I am also only a reflection.

Silence is the gateway to knowing.

Edited by emptyfull 2008-09-22 1:17 PM
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Posted 2008-10-11 5:48 PM (#111326 - in reply to #110999)
Subject: RE: opening the heart chakra?


Hi tall,
Since there are no such things as physical chakras, you cannot open them. Chakras are metaphors for different levels of human activity, starting from the most basic and going up to the presumed highest levels. There are no such thing as actual physical chakras and all the ideas about them are nothing more than medieval superstition or New Age misunderstanding of medieval superstition. What your teacher probably means (less the New Age BS) is that you need to open your chest and shoulders more and lift your ribs. Make sure that you are extending your lower back and not compressing it. Think of stretching/extending and opening your front rather than bending your back.
Namaste,
Jim

PS It is a bad idea to confuse the poetic, metaphorical world with the actual physical world. They both exist, but in different ways. The poetic/metaphorical world is entirely subjective and created by your mind with only the substance that you give it (imagine) and the actual physical world is objective with an independent existence and substance, although our perceptions of that world are created by our minds.
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tourist
Posted 2008-10-12 11:42 AM (#111346 - in reply to #111326)
Subject: RE: opening the heart chakra?



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Well, I think in the last two posts we have covered both ends of the yoga spectrum! Nice to have them juxtaposed so we can consider them together.

jim - i really appreciate your level-headed approach. It helps me clarify some of these ideas for students who may be unwilling or not-ready to look at the metaphorical or poetic in yoga. I detest the New Age BS, as you call it.

Two things, though. One - my often repeated story about the old Irishman and the leprechauns. When asked if he believed in leprechauns, the old man said "Absolutely not! But they are there, just the same." Two - it is entirely possible that the chakras DO exist, but we are not able to see them yet. Molecules and atoms existed before we had the technology to see them, right? Personally, I like to leave myself open to these ideas while also staying very grounded in what is tangible and clearly "real." I am happy to do asana and pranayama that opens the chest and helps me breathe and generally feel better. If I am also opening the heart chakra, so much the better, but it will not be my main objective.
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Posted 2008-10-12 12:51 PM (#111347 - in reply to #111346)
Subject: RE: opening the heart chakra?


tourist - 2008-10-12 8:42 AM

Personally, I like to leave myself open to these ideas while also staying very grounded in what is tangible and clearly "real."


tourist - I like your approach. For me the point of yoga is to open the mind and body and live more fully in the present moment with increased awareness. Although improbable ideas are not part of this, neither is a closed mind.

Alchemy has been replaced with chemistry as our understanding has increased. Astronomy has replaced astrology. Science has not given us truth; it has expanded our perceptions and given us more accurate explainations of what things are and how they work. People used to see the stars and thought that they were gods that circled the earth. Science has expanded our perceptions so that now we see a huge multi-dimensional universe where stars are suns like ours and our planet rotates. The reality of all this is probably far greater than what we currently can even imagine or are capable of comprehending. The same is true about our understanding of the human body. We now understand a lot more on many different levels. Using the scientific approach, our understanding is growing all the time. Will this lead us to some "ultimate truth"? I think not. It will, however, expand our perceptions and lead us away from many misunderstandings and childish superstitions.
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emptyfull
Posted 2008-10-28 12:22 AM (#111654 - in reply to #98445)
Subject: RE: opening the heart chakra?


Yes, Science illumines much that the senses are not sensitive to, and this is invaluable on many levels. But as Jim stated, this is not the Way to truth, it may point to truth, and therein is the gift. Science is a mechanistic vibrational measurement of forms, but truth is from what these "things" flower and return. Let ALL go to realize, and this includes accepted and trendy subjects alike.

Any attachment to a form will lead to suffering, subtle or intense; in that the attachment is rooted in a belief that is based on "past" criteria or a projected fantasy future that justifies the belief (even inner experience beliefs) that will then erode like water to a stone. If we become attached, or as a stone, life will continually tug at our being to flow, and hence suffering is born. So, concerning chakras and inner-experience, let us attach the least amount of energy so that we flow unimpeded in observation, free, on through the mystery. It is good to practice stillness so that stillness is what we realize IS.

If we walk along a path with the many sticks we have gathered we will become unbalanced, and ironically stumble from the load and not the road.

If we practice awareness in all situations, any real or unreal thing will harmonize, else we could not be fully present.



Edited by emptyfull 2008-10-28 12:23 AM
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hnia
Posted 2008-10-28 12:51 PM (#111657 - in reply to #98445)
Subject: RE: opening the heart chakra?


I think this teacher was probably just asking you to look inside.
I think it is possible to be more closed at the heart chakra and need to open it. I personally do believe that body language and awareness is key to understanding the chakras. If I saw you in a simple cross legged position. Would you shoulder roll forward? You might find yourself doing this unconsciencously or not...

Then you'll need to address if there would be anything emotional worth looking at? Emotional pain can cause the body to tighten up too.

You could look at a person who physically appears closed or you could look at a person who mentally seems closed. To me these things are related. The practice is a like a mirror sometimes. And it allows us to see ourselves in a new way.

There are people that tend to be closed off from the world. They don't allow themselves to feel vulnerable, to love deeply, and they put a shield/wall up in front of themselves. These are the types of people who wouldn't dare cry in public. People that don't forgive. They might benefit from opening the heart chakra most.

I supposed you could have the reverse too. Someone who is too open, too forgiving, too vulnerable.

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kristi
Posted 2008-10-30 5:54 PM (#111689 - in reply to #98445)
Subject: RE: opening the heart chakra?


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Before I had started practicing yoga, phrases like “open the heart chakra” seemed to me too abstract, too new-age-oriented, and not “realistic”, not “scientific”. I felt that all such phrases were nothing but “poetic” ways for the teachers to somehow poetically inspire/motivate the students of yoga.
But when I started practicing yogasana and observing what was happening inside me while doing the backward bends, I felt myself what opening the heart chackra means. A simple explanation might be that the wide opening of the chest, which you acquire by doing these backwards bending asanas, makes your breath easier, larger and fuller, more oxygen comes into your cells, which makes you feel happy and fulfilled and therefore also generous and with a more open heart. This is totally realistic to anyone who just tries it in full conscience.
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Posted 2008-11-05 7:17 PM (#111793 - in reply to #111689)
Subject: RE: opening the heart chakra?


kristi - 2008-10-30 2:54 PM

But when I started practicing yogasana and observing what was happening inside me while doing the backward bends, I felt myself what opening the heart chackra means. A simple explanation might be that the wide opening of the chest, which you acquire by doing these backwards bending asanas, makes your breath easier, larger and fuller, more oxygen comes into your cells, which makes you feel happy and fulfilled and therefore also generous and with a more open heart. This is totally realistic to anyone who just tries it in full conscience.


You do not get more oxygen into your blood or to your cells by breathing easier, larger or fuller. Only a small percentage of the oxygen that you inhale actually goes into your blood and most of it is exhaled (which is why CPR works). Therefore, since your blood (red blood cells) absorbs its limit of oxygen with even shallow breathing, that limit is not increased by deep breathing. When you are doing strenuous aerobic physical exercise, your muscles are burning so much oxygen that you need to breathe deeply to expel the excessive CO2 (a poison), not to get more oxygen. The same is true when you hold your breath. You need to start breathing again to expel CO2, not to get more oxygen.

Being generous is not having a physically larger or more open heart. Generosity is in the brain, not the heart. (Just like sexual lust is in the brain, not the genitals.) Poetically, the generosity (that occurs in the brain) is thought of as from the heart, as is love (also a brain function). The poetic descriptions are wonderful and evoke deep feelings (also in the brain) in most people. Those feelings are emotional (chemical brain processes) not anatomical (physical in the heart).

Deep breathing is relaxing and that release of tension allows the muscles and joints to open more and also produces increased seratonin in the brain which produces a feeling of well-being.
This feeling of well-being can be intrepreted poetically, anatomically or just enjoyed without the mental chatter.


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kristi
Posted 2008-11-08 5:12 AM (#111835 - in reply to #98445)
Subject: RE: opening the heart chakra?


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>>>Deep breathing is relaxing and that release of tension allows the muscles and joints to >>>open more and >>also produces increased seratonin in the brain which produces a >>>feeling of well-being.

It is this feeling, which I was trying to describe, dear jimq, but without having the appropriate scientific knowledge myself. So thanks for this scientifically valid explanation that you offered us.

>>>Those feelings are emotional (chemical brain processes) not anatomical (physical in the >>>heart).

They are indeed chemical processes of the brain, but the feeling you get from them is somehow felt in a specific spot/area of the physical body.

So speaking about the heart here, and somehow widening the first main question of this thread, about the opening of the "heart chackra", I am also wondering and trying to explore, how come and these type of feelings, the feelings of love, of compassion, etc, are felt specifically in the area of the sternum, ie in the heart area and therefore there exist also all those very old and very common phrases, like “this man has a large heart” or “my heart is broken” etc etc.


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kulkarnn
Posted 2008-11-08 8:49 AM (#111840 - in reply to #111835)
Subject: RE: opening the heart chakra?


Dear Kristi: There is NO question that Chest Area has to do with Emotional aspect of a person. And, when one says Heart, it means that area. That is all I can say at the present.



kristi - 2008-11-08 5:12 AM

>>>Deep breathing is relaxing and that release of tension allows the muscles and joints to >>>open more and >>also produces increased seratonin in the brain which produces a >>>feeling of well-being.

It is this feeling, which I was trying to describe, dear jimq, but without having the appropriate scientific knowledge myself. So thanks for this scientifically valid explanation that you offered us.

>>>Those feelings are emotional (chemical brain processes) not anatomical (physical in the >>>heart).

They are indeed chemical processes of the brain, but the feeling you get from them is somehow felt in a specific spot/area of the physical body.

So speaking about the heart here, and somehow widening the first main question of this thread, about the opening of the "heart chackra", I am also wondering and trying to explore, how come and these type of feelings, the feelings of love, of compassion, etc, are felt specifically in the area of the sternum, ie in the heart area and therefore there exist also all those very old and very common phrases, like “this man has a large heart” or “my heart is broken” etc etc.


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tourist
Posted 2008-11-08 9:50 AM (#111841 - in reply to #111840)
Subject: RE: opening the heart chakra?



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One thing I clearly remember Geeta Iyengar saying when she was here in the spring was that we need to keep the chest open (which we all seem to agree on). She said that when the chest collapses we become "down hearted." I like that very much.
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Posted 2008-11-12 2:21 PM (#111905 - in reply to #111835)
Subject: RE: opening the heart chakra?


kristi - 2008-11-07 2:12 AM

I am also wondering and trying to explore, how come and these type of feelings, the feelings of love, of compassion, etc, are felt specifically in the area of the sternum, ie in the heart area and therefore there exist also all those very old and very common phrases, like “this man has a large heart” or “my heart is broken” etc etc.



Where do you feel hate? Where do you feel pride? Where do you feel anger? Where do you feel joy? Where do you feel happiness? Where do you feel emotions?

People used to think that the heart (because it is in the center of the chest) was where all these emotions happened. We now know that these emotions all happen in the brain. We know this because when people have certain brain injuries, they lose those "heart felt" feelings. Certain brain injuries cause a loss of emotion, other brain injuries cause a loss of feeling on the left side of the body where the person sees their left arm as if it belonged to someone else. Remember that the brain projects feelings. A person with an amputated arm or leg can feel pain in that missing limb. There are also brain injuries that cause the person to lose compassion or the ability to have empathy with others.
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Posted 2008-11-12 2:38 PM (#111906 - in reply to #111841)
Subject: RE: opening the heart chakra?


tourist - 2008-11-08 6:50 AM

One thing I clearly remember Geeta Iyengar saying when she was here in the spring was that we need to keep the chest open (which we all seem to agree on). She said that when the chest collapses we become "down hearted." I like that very much.


Whichever words or poetic phrases we use to describe it, I think that we can all agree that an open chest promotes good breathing (the most essential act that we perform) as well as good posture, which allows all those nerves running up and down our spines to function freely and effectively.

Since every cell of our bodies requires a constant supply of oxygen and a constant removal of waste, life itself is based on breathing. Since every cell must be coordinated with all the other cells, the nervous system must flow freely. Good posture and good spinal health are so important because so many of our nerves go through the spinal column.

An open chest feels good because it is saying yes to life, literally and poetically.
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Souladarity
Posted 2009-03-02 6:58 AM (#114060 - in reply to #98445)
Subject: Re: opening the heart chakra?


I have to agree with JimG. 99% of what's believed about chakras - and in fact most of modern spirituality - is a quite recent invention. The third eye, chakras (in the Theosophical/Anodea Judith vein), the aura, 7 levels of consciousness and existence, most aspects of astral travel, and so many other things, are primarily the invention of Theosophy (Blavatsky, Leadbetter, and Bessant) about 100 years ago, they have no ancient equivalents in authentic texts. The trouble has been that modern writers have continued to cite Theosophy as a credible source of information in these areas when it's certainly not.

S

Edited by Souladarity 2009-03-02 6:59 AM
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jaikrsna
Posted 2009-03-02 1:18 PM (#114071 - in reply to #98445)
Subject: Re: opening the heart chakra?


I mostly agree with souladarity & jimG. in a general yoga class talk of opening chakras is almost always way off.

ask your teacher for clarity on this point. as many people have state your teacher most likly means, open your chest. which to me is clearer and easier to understand.

practice to cultivate understanding and clarity about yourself and your practice.
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Maharaja Ganj
Posted 2010-03-31 12:29 AM (#122182 - in reply to #98445)
Subject: Re: opening the heart chakra?


Member

Posts: 16

The ancient texts where yoga originated from do speak of nadis,chakras,kundalini etc. It is modern scientific concepts like atoms and the nervous system that do not get a mention of course. But the i think the chakaras are better not thought of as physcial things but psycho-energetic centres; that's to say rather that they are felt rather than something that can be observed in the 3rd-person, like the brain, for instance. they are centres of consciousness in the same way prana is consciousness. When you do your asanas you activate your prana/energy-body to flow more harmoniously - they flow through channels that supposedly have a certain anatomy.

Having an open mind could mean we don't neeed evidence-based science to support the truth of something.

I would say if you sat down and meditated or done a little pranayama or observed tingly sensations, very subtle mind you, then this could be the prana/subtle energy that the ancients texts speak of.

Modern science can support the chakra system, and vice-versa, by drawing physical correlates with the chakras in the form of endocrine and nerve plexuses. Also sensitive meters have been used by modern researchers such as Dr. Hiroshi Motoyama.

Yes,There is new-age stuff about chakras that i have read that seemed alittle wishy-washy and lacking in authority for me.

Question is - if one has experienced these very subtle tingly sensations- movement of prana etc related.I would'nt expect a modern newcomer to be immediately open to the idea. But the more one explores yoga(i.e the self ) it is entirely credible that conscioussness/mind effects energy which in turn effects the body, the breath( the vehicle for prana/energy) of course being the bridge between the two. There is nothing of course ridiculous about that idea- i.e the koshas/body sheaths and how they might appear contained within one another just like babushka dolls.. Indeed the latest cutting-edge science, which is in it's infancy, including einstein, will say that ultimately matter,incl. the physical body, is reducible to energy.Another way it is coined is that matter is a manifestation of conscioussness.And consciousness is energy. Perhaps just different concepts grounded in quite different paradigms. Science in it's convnentional sense is overly materialistic and mechanistic- this definition of science may well be expanding soon with new discoveries occurring all the time- atomic bomb, electricity, black holes(theoretically possible). Most things that limit us are our minds and our imaginations.They say einstein came up with his theories after imagining being a ball of light moving through the universe- all great geniuses like this usually think outisde the box. It's quite possible Einstein's kundalini was reasonably active= that's to say, in yoga term's, he was spiritually awake. I think science and spirituality- ancient and modern is an area rich for cross-fertilisation.
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Posted 2010-04-04 1:31 PM (#122226 - in reply to #122182)
Subject: Re: opening the heart chakra?


If you are trying to fit facts and observations to a theory, it is not science. The modern scientific method (started in the 1600's and now used worldwide) require five basic steps that were not present in earlier Western or Eastern inquiry, both of which developed a theory or philosophy, and then looked for facts to substantiate that theory.

Modern Scientific Methodology:

1. Careful observation and experimentation, using any and all scientific instruments available (microscope, telescope, MRIs, X-rays etc) For the human body, this observation requires dissection, which was not allowed in the West or East and led to errors, because the physical reality did not necessarily agree with their philosophy.

2. Development of a general theory, based on the data, not a pre-existing philosophy.

3. Additional experimentation to verify that the results are repeatable and consistent.

4. Apply mathematical measurement to all test results so that others can independently verify results.

5. Propose a final hypothesis and present the data, math, results and hypothesis to the world at large for continuing, independent verification.

Whether it is Aristotle's world view (which was believed by all in the West until the modern period) or Chakras, they are a result of a philosophy and are not consistent with the observable and measurable universe. Twisting the function of the endocrine system to support the chakra philosophy is the same as Ptolemy trying to make Aristotle's cosmology make sense with obvious observable facts.

Nadis, chakras, kundalini etc are religion, not science. They are symbolic representations, not actual physical realities. Believe in them if you like. Believe in the scientific method if you like. The atom bomb scientifically and objectively supports the existence of atoms in agreement with atomic theory. Photos from space are objective evidence to support the theory that the world is round. The human mind can subjectively experience anything that it believes; these experiences are self generated and called religion. Religion is based on faith and subjective discovery. Science is based on doubt and discovery based on objective observable, measurable data. I am not saying that religion is not useful, only that it is not science and is based on belief instead of empirical evidence. Mixing them is both bad science and bad religion.

There is a fundamental difference between religion and science. The basic view of religion is that "Truth" is in an old book or ancient tradition and is from the past. The basic view of science is that "Truth" is of the future and that we are little by little getting to know more of it all the time.



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Posted 2010-04-06 3:17 PM (#122267 - in reply to #122182)
Subject: Re: opening the heart chakra?


Maharaja Ganj - 2010-03-30 9:29 PM

I would say if you sat down and meditated or done a little pranayama or observed tingly sensations, very subtle mind you, then this could be the prana/subtle energy that the ancients texts speak of.



If you are looking for something to substantiate ancient texts, you can and probably will interpret tingly sensations as proof of your belief. We all get tingly sensations. We all interpret them within our worldview or paradigm. This only proves that we see (or feel, as in tingly sensations) what we believe. (I am not saying that your mind creates the tingly sensation, although it could, but rather that the mind creates how we experience that tingly sensation.)

Our senses receive input. We experience that input within our paradigm, filtering out that which doesn't fit our beliefs and then interpret that experience to substantiate or strengthen our pre-existing beliefs. This is totally subjective. We all do it because that is how our minds work.

This is the ego trying to substantiate and assert itself, trying to substantiate and assert "my" beliefs, "my" existence. This is consciousness. Without consciousness, there is no ego, no "I" to experience. As long as there is consciousness, there is an entity that experiences, there is ego. Even if you experience the void or nothingness, it is still ego and not nothingness, as there is an entity that experiences "nothingness" and therefore an ego.

Just because you experience something does not mean that it has any objective existence. Until your subjective experience is repeated and verified by an objective third party who does not share your belief, it is just your subjective belief. If people with differing beliefs in different times and places can all repeat the same experience, then it is probably more than just your personal construct, although it may be a universal human construct instead of a universal law or objective reality.

As long as you are following the authority of a tradition, text or person, you cannot be free to experience objectively, as you will be manipulating each and every experience to fit within the paradigm of that authority as you personally understand it, which may or may not be similar to the actual intent of the tradition, text or person.

If you "know" the answer based on any authority, including the authority of a pre-existing "scientific" answer or your own "answer" from yesterday, you will fit the data or input to the answer, instead of letting the data or input lead you to a new understanding. To inquire is to say: "I don't know".

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Posted 2010-04-17 12:20 AM (#122412 - in reply to #122226)
Subject: Re: opening the heart chakra?


There are two ways of viewing the past. 1.) The ancients are wise elders whose words are truth and there to teach their children (us). 2.) The ancients were bright, inquiring children and we (modern man) have progressed to the point of adolescence, hopefully becoming wise adults in the future.

Once we let go of the authority of tradition, we can start to actually experience the present with a clear and open mind. This type of inquiry usually leads to growth and discovery.
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Maharaja Ganj
Posted 2010-04-28 11:01 AM (#122549 - in reply to #122412)
Subject: Re: opening the heart chakra?


Member

Posts: 16

Hi jimg,

Yoga is an ancient spiritual science.And concepts like nadis,chakras,prana and kundalini are part of that.

You might find this interesting.Food for thought.


http://www.mindshiftinstitute.org/articles/darkenergy.htm

http://myefficientplanet.com/59534/the-awesome-powers-of-dark-energy-and-matter-a-new-cosmology/

Edited by Maharaja Ganj 2010-04-28 11:26 AM

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mbonner2007
Posted 2010-08-05 2:55 PM (#124520 - in reply to #98445)
Subject: Re: opening the heart chakra?


Member

Posts: 14

One of the problems is that it is very difficult to teach someone to have an experience that is so intensely personal.
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maple
Posted 2010-08-06 4:50 AM (#124545 - in reply to #98445)
Subject: Re: opening the heart chakra?


One thing I clearly remember Geeta Iyengar saying when she was here in the spring was that we need to keep the chest open (which we all seem to agree on). She said that when the chest collapses we become "down hearted." I like that very much.
-----

makes total sense,thanks
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Posted 2010-08-06 7:42 AM (#124546 - in reply to #98445)
Subject: Re: opening the heart chakra?


Our own forum member and Hot Yoga Doctor in Australia advocates imagining your elbows going into your back hip pockets--impossible to be down hearted then.
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