|
|
| Hi All,
Last week I went to a morning mysore class in Edinburgh. The teacher was very good. According to her website she's been to Mysore several times. I enjoyed my practice and her adjustments.
One thing she had me doing was downdog with my knees bent. I didn't get the chance to ask her what were the benefits of doing this variation. Anyone out there have an opinion?
Ian |
|
| |
|
   
Location: London, England | Hi Ian,
Sometimes it helps me to adjust a student's lumbar spine towards neutral, by taking the stretch off the hamstrings so that the hip joints can flex more, allowing the spinal curve to return-but I think the reasons for Mysore teachers to do this are different.
Nick |
|
| |
|
| I'm guessing that she saw some tight hamstrings and wanted you to share the weight that was in your arms with your legs.
|
|
| |
|
| In order for me to get the length/extension in my spine, I need to bend my knees. My hammies are just too tight. When I do straight legs- I lose my back completely. |
|
| |
|
| joscmt - 2007-10-31 9:09 AM
In order for me to get the length/extension in my spine, I need to bend my knees. My hammies are just too tight. When I do straight legs- I lose my back completely.
Could you explain further? I really am interested.
I know that Baptiste has you doing some down dog with bent knees and then some with straight knees.
What is "losing the back", and how does one know if they have lost it?
I know that I like keeping my hamstrings because I want to stretch them.
|
|
| |
|
| I usually start out my morning Downdog with bent legs because I am so stiff. It does also help me even up the weight in my arms and legs, but mostly it is out of necessity from stiffness and pain.
|
|
| |
|
| ollie- I took some pics to show what I am talking about.. there a bit of a disclaimer here though...
1. I'm 32 weeks pregnant- so my pose isn't great- legs are far apart, and I'm stiff
2. I had been really sick for the better part of 2 months- I just started getting back into light movement in the last week- so I'm REALLY stiff- in my "decent pose" shot I still don't have the extension in my lower back that I typically have (but I have to be careful being pregnant now.. because it does a number on my sacrum) AND my knees are bent more than they usually are
3. I am on an old mat.. so I was slipping a little.
All that being said, I think you can get my point. When I have my legs straight, my back looks like a rainbow... when I bend my knees a little (well, at this point a lot because I'm stiff)..my shoulders line up and my back is extended head to butt....
The first pic is the "straight leg", the second is bent..
 (baddog.JPG)
 (okdog.JPG)
Attachments
----------------
 baddog.JPG (16KB - 65 downloads)
okdog.JPG (14KB - 66 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
| Ollie- I went to all that trouble to get my big pregnant butt into downdog and you haven't even come back to comment....  |
|
| |
|
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
 
| ML - what happens if you just step your feet back a bit? I would have you try that first. But I would also have you with your hands on a chair at this point  |
|
| |
|
| My feet and hands are pretty close because that was an old yoga mat and I was slip-sliding away!!
Nowadays, I am using a wall... or a chair- I can get down there, but I get a pretty good head rush coming back up.
Ollie was asking me for clarification about the difference in my back between bent legs and straight legs.. |
|
| |
|
| You get a headrush coming back up - what movement are you using?
Vic |
|
| |
|
| I prefer the 1st version where uddiyana is engaged and you are looking towards your navel.
|
|
| |
|
| I prefer the 1st version where uddiyana is engaged and you are looking towards your navel.
AS A PRE NATAL OPTION ?  |
|
| |
|
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| victw - 2007-11-15 8:17 PM
You get a headrush coming back up - what movement are you using?
Vic
vic - at this point for marylisa, it is probably not a jump through  |
|
| |
|
| I think everyone has missed the point here.. read my first post in this thread.. and then read Ollie's response.
I've been told, in the past, by several teachers, that picture #1 does not truly represent downward facing dog... the hunched back and shoulders are a no-no...
And, no, it's not a pre-natal option... and no, there's definitely no jumpbacks going on I think I mentioned that I haven't even been able to exercise for the last 7 or 8 weeks due to extreme illness... so these pics aren't even super-true representations of me either. I'm stiff, stuffed (full of baby)... and hadn't done anything to "warm-up". I just unrolled my old mat and gave it a go.
I knew that posting pictures to clarify my point would probably be a bad idea........  Is this confusing enough for everyone?? |
|
| |
|
Location: London, England | Hi MaryLisa,
Just to throw a fly in the ointment, you have hyper-extension in your knee joints-so your legs aren't 'straight,' in the anatomical sense, at least. I'm not disagreeing with your observations, I think you are correct-but if you drew a force vector through your knees in the first photo, it would project towards the wall behind you-this makes it much more likely that your shoulders will lift, and the spine will flatten, partly because of altered pelvic tilt. So one of the reasons that you are gaining better posture with your knees bent may be overcome by learning not to hyper-extend those knee joints when you 'straighten' those legs-this usually takes a long time-people who can hyper-extend their knees often use this as a strategy for accomplishing various postures-both in forward bends and backbends
Nick |
|
| |
|
| Marylisa
I think your point was well made bending the knees could help with extention for people who are very tight in the hamstrings, other options could be to take the feet wider or back ...really there are many options.
The idea of Udiyana (which Eric brought up) in conjucture with the picture confused me so I just wanted to mention that Udiyana is not really all that good for pregnant women.
come to think of it if someone is tight enough that their teacher suggests they bend their knees in adho mukha svanasana won't udiyana and gazing at the naval make matters worse ? |
|
| |
|
| Depends on the yogini really.. It's not a full engagement anyway...
I like to scoop my tailbone down and look towards the navel. I prefer more of an arch than a straight spine that lifts the tailbone up.
|
|
| |
|
| http://www.sattvayogashala.com/photo_gallery.htm
You might enjoy these pictures...
I wasn't saying that she should do it the 1st way or the 2nd way. I was saying I prefer (me) the 1st version with the tailbone tucked down.
This is the asthanga forum!
Nick, maybe Ian has hyperextended knees too? Didn't you teach him before?
|
|
| |
|
Location: London, England | Hi Eric,
No, I don't think Ian has hyper-extended knees-but everyone has the capacity to suffer from the effects of constantly extending the knee and then applying forces across it from anterior to posterior (for instance, tearing the anterior cruciate ligament, anterior knee pain, etc.). The process of learning how not to hyper-extend the knee can be applied to everybody. I think there are several mechanisms within yoga that tend to result in knee hyperextension-sometimes, dancers like to practice yoga, and those girls really love to hyper-extend!  Then everyone copies them because they can do the postures well. Also, we are basically lazy, and will use the smaller muscles of the legs rather than the massive muscles of the hips to perform postures-there's probably loads of reasons why knee hyper-extension will always have to be addressed in every yoga class-I never go through a class without it being visible on countless occasions-maybe I have lazier students, or it could also be that I'm aware of hyper-extension forces even when the leg is straight. I think
Nick |
|
| |
|
| Oh...I thought we solved the original question!
I have it in my knees and elbows, but the yoga has really helped. |
|
| |
|
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Yes, Marylisa, I think we got it but decided to run with our own agenda anyway Nick - you are right about the knees! I didn't notice it because I was looking at her back. It is a HUGE issue and really does have to be addressed all the time. Some people have a very visible hyper extension and some (like me) you don't see it so much, but that is what my legs are trying to do unless I really, really work at it. How do you respond to the idea that this is not technically hyper extension, but an overuse of the calf muscle? I know someone who always argues that true hyper extension is a whole different thing. |
|
| |
|
| Nick- That's definitely something to consider- I will think about it when I'm not ready to pop! May be a little while before I get back to you on that one. Right now, I'm mainly doing DD against a wall.....
I was instructed against Uddiyana Bandha awhile back by my teacher. I lightly engage my abdominal wall so I don't get too much of a sway back while walking.. but it's definitely not a bandha...
I think I mentioned somewhere that I'm not a practitioner of Ashtanga- I've been to a class or two.. but nothing regular-
FWIW- since I've been pregnant- and before I stopped doing full sun-salutations- I was told to tuck my tailbone just a little bit- because of the looser joints in my pelvis, I kept leaving class feeling like I had bruised my tailbone. So I did begin to tuck a little bit.
|
|
| |
|
Location: London, England | Hi Eric,
Well, you may have done!
Nick |
|
| |
|
Location: London, England | Hi MaryLisa,
Tucking the tailbone won't bring the the surfaces of the sacro-iliac joints closer together in down dog, at least, not necessarily-in fact, it will actually be made looser by doing the tuck-but this can sometimes bring relief, because you are pulling apart the joint surfaces and stretching the muscles, so it feels like you are doing the right thing-but you are then caught in a vicious spiral.
Nick |
|
| |
Downdog with bent legs
