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| My shoulder blades are a puzzle to me. Why do they think they belong on top of my shoulders?
I've really been trying to get them to slide down my back, or at least get them to move in that direction. Sometimes in certain poses I feel there's room there for them to slide a bit lower, but I just can't move into it. To get there I have to roll my shoulders back, one at a time. I don't want this to be turning into a bad habit, should I be concerned?
Thanks for reading, Shelly |
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| I've had trouble with my shoulders forever, my right one, mostly, so I know how it is. When you roll your shoulders back separately, is it always the same one first? I wouldn't think it would be so bad if you alternate which one goes back first, because otherwise (I think) that's how the imbalance or bad habit might be created. But eventually, I'd think you want to be able to move both at the same time; or better yet, have them there already before you start.  |
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| Thanks OM, I'm still thinking about this. It came to me to ask about it because once I did find the extra room for my shoulder blades to move into I had to think about how I did it. Then once I was aware of it I wondered if I was forming a habit. I was rolling one shoulder at a time in poses when I'm supporting myself on my arms. I'm sure out of caution not to hurt myself. I haven't even thought about which side was first, that's something else to become aware of. So, rolling both shoulders at the same time would be an improvement? I was worried about the becoming dependent on the movement mostly. I was thinking the ideal would be to be able to slide into that space without rolling the shoulders, but I don't know how to get there. Sometimes when I'm just sitting I take a break and try to be aware of that area, and think on it. I can get my shoulders and shoulder blades to move back and down without rolling while I sit here. In the pose though, with the muscles engaged, rolling is required. Thanks for helping me puzzle this out though, the increased awareness and movement in the area are both such great positives that I'm sure to continue working it. Shelly |
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| Hi Shelly, Like I said, this is an area that I have constant trouble with, especially with my structural imbalance. One of the instructions that I've learned from Anusara is "side body long". The way beginners are taught to start into this instruction is to do exactly what we've always been told NOT to do: from tadasana, scrunch the shoulders up to the ears (elbows slightly bent backward). Now while the shoulderheads are up there, notice that length and space has been created in the side body, your ribs area. Now without losing that created space, take the shoulderheads along with the tops of your arm bones (where the armpits come out your back and wrap into your shoulders and back, if that helps) back in space behind you. The pelvis and lower ribs shouldn't move forward in space as a result; having slightly bent knees helps keep this from happening. The shoulderblades have now moved into the space on your back where they belong, tips moving down toward your waist and toward each other, but the space behind your heart should remain broad. It's a tough action/movement to learn if you don't have sufficient body awareness and/or muscle control developed back there, which is the case for me, for sure. It's basically learning how to use your lats to place the shoulderblades in their proper position and keep them there. "Side body long", it's my mantra.  Hope that helped! |
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| Thanks again OM, your exercise sounds like the mother of all shoulder rolls.  I'll be practicing and enjoying it, Shelly |
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| Okay, so now I'm probably just thinking about it too much. I should probably relax and enjoy the newfound space, but no. I'm thinking this would be a similar situation in any pose that you had to make a physical movement to wiggle in deeper. should this be a goal to get deeper into a pose without the extra arranging of the body. Or is the wiggle like a prop I should just work with? Shelly |
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| I don't think it's much different than any other anatomical imbalance. If the shoulder blades are "hiking up" then it is one or all three of the following:
The levator scapulae.
The upper fibers of the trapezius.
The serratus anterior has some weak influence on the elevation of the scapula as well.
One would focus asana work on the other muscle fibers (lower and middle) of the Trapezius in order to enlist them and thus release the muslces pulling the shoulder blades up toward the back of the skull.
The upper portions of Garudasana and Gomukhasana woul dbe good places to attend though the fibers in question can be enlisted by the mindful student in Tadasana, Adho Mukha Svanasana, Urdhva Mukha Svanasana, Vanarasana, Phalankasana, Bhujangasana, Salabhasana, Dhanurasana, Trikonasana, Ardha Chandrasana, etcetera.
But I would not be "concerned" :-)
Edited by purnayoga 2007-11-09 12:03 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
    
| shelly - funny how the mind gets a hold of a puzzle and just worries it like a terrier sometimes, isn't it? Mr. Tourist has been told by his ballroom teacher that he has to learn to relax his shoulders while dancing and he has NO idea how to move his shoulderblades yet. But last night in class (yes! he is finally coming to the class I teach at home!) I caught him practicing his dance hold while lying in legs-up-the-wall Whatever works, eh?
But I think it is extra important for you to do lots of shoulder stuff because of your occupation. You spend so much time bending over a sewing machine or bending over a cutting table or bending over an ironing board and even if you practice extra-wonderful posture and occupational safety goodness, your shoulders and neck will thank you if you give them extra attention.  |
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| i hurt my shoulder walking down a ladder about two years ago, and its just now starting to come out.
if the shoulderblades were on the front of the body, it would be so much easier, but being on the great unknown of the back, it makes things slightly more difficult, eh?
i had this idea the other day of moving the arm bones from inside the glenoid (shoulder socket), and had some good luck working on isolating the movement of the head of the humerus from the shoulderblade.
its funny to me how this injury waited so long before starting to come to the surface. what triggered it? i suppose just undoing those layers of imbalance...
another thing that kinda sticks in my craw: when i'm working on alignment for the feet and legs, its much easier to isolate the actions. but the alignment so far up the body (shoulders, neck) is dependent upon the integrity of the structure below.
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| Hi Purnayoga, thanks for the list of asanas. Most of them were already on my list, so it's good to know I'm on the right idea. The mention of the back of the skull really made sense to me, now I know every time I bend my head over my work I'm pulling the shoulderblades up. No wonder I'm practically wearing them as earrings sometimes.
Hi Tourist, hard to believe an athletic person would have an excellent yoga instructor in the same house for all this time, and would just now be catching on to it. About time, huh?
As for the sewing, sometimes I get so immersed in it I forget to take a break until my body is a big knot. I need to work more from intellegent thinking, less from obsession.
Hi Dhanurasana, This is great:
another thing that kinda sticks in my craw: when i'm working on alignment for the feet and legs, its much easier to isolate the actions. but the alignment so far up the body (shoulders, neck) is dependent upon the integrity of the structure below.
It explains why after a few minutes in tadasana I have to roll my shoulders again, and find more space in my body.
Thank you all for inspiration to practice, and helping me enjoy my practice. Shelly
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| shelly - I am reading sewing things online now and I'm seeing that there are a lot of OCD or nearly OCD folks who sew! I am aware of the shoulder/neck issues because I often used to get migraines after long sewing sessions.  As for the athlete at my class - well, he is male for starters... He is a BIG challenge to teach, though. More than the average inflexible guy, I'd say. But at least he is making a start. |
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| dhanurasana - 2007-11-09 6:53 PM i had this idea the other day of moving the arm bones from inside the glenoid (shoulder socket), and had some good luck working on isolating the movement of the head of the humerus from the shoulderblade. That's exactly what the instruction "top of the arm bones back" means. I'm constantly working that action as well, trying to get my right side to respond as well as my left side does. It also helps to lengthen the side body first, expanding the intercostals the best you can, keep that length, then layer in the shoulder socket play. Are you doing this in tadasana or in urdhva hastasana? I find I have more success in experiencing the action with the arms overhead. Half the time I'm only working my right arm, and that's even better for me. |
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| This is funny, I was studying from Purna's list. I have the Yoga Anatomy book by Leslie Kaminoff, and I like it. I like the illustrations of the body in poses. The muscles used are highlighted and I can get the image to stick in my mind while I practice, and it helps to know where the work should be coming from. I found all the poses he mentioned there except vanarasana and phalankasana. I wasn't worried about it, and pulled out Light on Yoga. I couldn't find it there either, so I went to Google. I found it in writing, and tried google images to reinforce things. I'm a visual person. Under Google images for vanarasana I found joscmt's and redrox's avatar images  , and for phalankasana I found Nick's avatar image. How strange is than? Anyway, from what I found vanarasana is a lunge in sun salutations, is this right? Then I am practicing this during sun salutations, . Also phalankasana is plank, right? Then I've been practicing this too.
Purna, thanks for the sanskrit names. Everytime I learn another one I'm happy and feel less overwhelmed by sanskrit. |
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| Vanarasana is "monkey" pose and comes from the classical Surya Namaskar. It is indeed a lunge.
Phalankasana is "plank" poses and also comes from the classical SN.
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| Shelly, trying doing your google search for vanarasana spelled with two a's, as vaanarasana. Believe it or not, it's called Monkey Pose (for once, something I learned from YogaFit is consistent!), and is basically the transition from uttanasana with a long spine ("inhale, look up, lengthening the heart forward..."). And yes, phalahakasana is plank pose, also known as kumbhakasana (interesting discussion of the origins of the name here). So yeah, I'm a visual learner as you are, but I'm also very verbal-oriented, so I've made it my personal quest to learn as many of the Sanskrit pose names as possible. Needless to say, I've got way too much free time...  |
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| purnayoga - 2007-11-12 12:57 PM Vanarasana is "monkey" pose and comes from the classical Surya Namaskar. It is indeed a lunge. OK, maybe not so consistent.... |
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| Orange-
i suppose i should have been a little more specific.
i was speaking about a lateral movement of the head of the humerus. certainly taking the arm bones back in line with the shoulder socket is a valid instruction, but i'm speaking more of moving the head of the humerus slightly away from the shoulder socket.
not a large action, and maybe not an that everyone needs, but it meets my specific needs and opens up a whole new range of sensation in shoulderblade.
it is easier for me to locate this in tadasana. when i have my arms overhead, the action becomes much more difficult to locate.
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shoulder blades
