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| I belong to a few internet discussion groups. One in particular doesnt allow any self promotion of their products through the discussion or directing of people to their websites.
I feel annoyed when I see this on here. How does everyone else feel? |
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| I feel the following:
a) If the product being expressed directly relates to the discussion, it is fantastic. Because, it answers the question. For example: If someone is asking about instruction on meditation, I shall be writing:
1. Find an experienced teacher in your area. 2. Otherwise come to my area, that is me. 3. If you wish to learn by using audio/video, use my particular product.
But, in this case, I am sure that my product shall answer his/her query. And, I have verfied this to happen in 100 perecent cases.
b) If someone expresses their website, I feel fantastic. Because, now they are telling more about themselves. And, the reader has more information that just the answer. In fact, when someone asks me 'what book I should read', in general, I shall inform them to find about the teacher in connection with what they are reading. If the teacher seems to be 'whatever...' in connection with that topic, then only read it. Otherwise, it is going to be entertainment.
For example, if the teacher has written a book on Asanas, then try to know more about the teacher in terms of doing Asanas in their life. And, you shall get a good idea about the book as well.
But, I have one question to the OP: 'What exactly annoys you when someone tries to sell their product/s"?
NOTE: The above is the answer to the original post.
Edited by kulkarnn 2007-12-17 6:26 PM
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| I don't mind if people have a link in a signature line. I don't even mind people promoting stuff appropriate on a yoga forum, particularly people that contribute alot otherwise. But I think most of that stuff would be better placed in a forum specifically created for that purpose, as some boards do. The worst is when someone is shilling something dishonestly, acting like its some cool product they discovered, when it's really their product. I think those should just be deleted.
Edited by aystam 2007-12-17 6:27 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
    
| We do our best to get the spammers outta here quickly.  I have no problem with an answer to a question is given along with, "I have written a book on that, if you are interested." |
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| Products?
Contributing members may share their products with the community. I think that is perfectly reasonable when it follows an intention of sharing and it is shared in integrity,
The posters who sign up and post the same promotion in five or six sections then disappear, I don't think there's integrity in a "drive by" like that.
Additionallly, a poster who only posts promotions, or does so every single time, I wonder about that too.
But generally speaking I do not mind a self promotion or two from contributing members. But you have to establish yourself within the community first. |
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| kulkarnn - 2007-12-17 6:25 PM
But, I have one question to the OP: 'What exactly annoys you when someone tries to sell their product/s"?
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I am weary of the motivation of those who shill their products as an answer to people's inquiries. Those self proclaimed guru's who need to rely on advertised "testimonials" to validate their guru status.
I just think their are very few authentic teachers in the world. They dont live on internet sites selling their products. Just my opinion. I dont run the site obviously and thankfully their are only a few that do it on here. |
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| Dear Ram: I am sensing anger rather than annoyance in your post. Annoyance should come if someone is doing an unwarranted action which is not beneficial or is distracting or some such behavior. But, in this case your anger seems to come from seeing what you do not like or due to your assumptions which are not fully correct. I am not trying to demean you. I am only explaining and responding to your post as discussion. Look at this:
If a person sells a product in answer to people's enquiry, it is wonderful if the product answers their query or question. The term 'Guru' is used as an Expert in today's world. But, I know that it has different meaning in Spirituality. We had discussed this topic for long in the past, when you probably were not a member. Next, you have problems with Expert directing people to 'testimonials'. Testimonials are fantastic to validate the expertise especially when testimonial is given by a third party. Whether you are giving your opinion in a post (like you have done in other threads, or it is given on a website, etc.), it is a Testimonial if one is telling 'I benefited from such and such'.
I agree with you that there are very few Authentic Teachers in the world. But, you do not know that exact number. Also, if you want to disprove someone as NON Authentic you shall need to do that successfully. And, more over Authentically.
Your statement that Authentic Teachers do not live on internet is totally False. Because, this board is on Internet and there are many Yoga Teachers on it. In fact, there is Yoga Teacher's dictionary on it. And, all of them are not false. Also, your statement that only few run the site here, is false. Most of them do. And, lastly, NOT running site does not make anyone better, it only makes them internet NON user.
What I would like to suggest you is: a) think carefully what you are writing and whether it is anger or some other dissatisfaction mixed with it b) think of relating response with the post and forget other irrelavant parts c) think of removing your misunderstanding of internet usage.
Of course, if you have positive explanation of a) why one should not sell products on internet b) what is exact meaning of Guru c) why a Guru will not sit on internet d) why one should not sell the product during discussion, etc. you are most welcome and respectfully.
Happy Holidays.
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I am weary of the motivation of those who shill their products as an answer to people's inquiries. Those self proclaimed guru's who need to rely on advertised "testimonials" to validate their guru status.
I just think their are very few authentic teachers in the world. They dont live on internet sites selling their products. Just my opinion. I dont run the site obviously and thankfully their are only a few that do it on here. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Ram - 2007-12-18 7:20 AM
I am weary of the motivation of those who shill their products as an answer to people's inquiries.
Ram - I am wondering how you can so clearly know another person's motivation? We rarely truly understand our own motivations for doing things, so it would be quite a feat to know someone else's.
I do understand what you are trying to convey and we do get this complaint from time to time. Newer people to the board are sometimes surprised that we are not as "yogic" as they think we should be. But yogis have to make a living, too. And if someone can make a good product available to students, we feel (with the caveats explained elsewhere) that it is fine for them to do so. |
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| Although I also find people selling their products or services on this website at times annoying, I am very willing to accept it since the people who do it also offer a lot of information and expertise and generally give very sound advice. I consider "selling things" to be a good thing, not "unyogic" or "evil". It is how we feed ourselves and our families. Selling things is only bad when deception is involved or only one side benefits. Patanjali was obviously "selling something" or he would not have written the Yoga Sutras down. Buying and selling is trade and without trade there is no life. (We trade our carbon dioxide with plants for oxygen to stay alive!) |
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| dear Ram: I also wanted to add one more point.
I think your statement of authentic teacher or guru may be a person who may be called a GOD REALiZED SAINT. In that case, I feel you are mostly correct. That such persons do not generally make a website and sell their products, etc. Of course, that is not always true. But, in such a case, their students or disciples or devotees or followers will advertise them all the same, using internet or other means.
Peace |
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| jimg - 2007-12-18 1:34 PM
Although I also find people selling their products or services on this website at times annoying, I am very willing to accept it since the people who do it also offer a lot of information and expertise and generally give very sound advice. I consider "selling things" to be a good thing, not "unyogic" or "evil". It is how we feed ourselves and our families. Selling things is only bad when deception is involved or only one side benefits. Patanjali was obviously "selling something" or he would not have written the Yoga Sutras down. Buying and selling is trade and without trade there is no life. (We trade our carbon dioxide with plants for oxygen to stay alive!)
I find nothing wrong with selling things. Its not about being "yogic". I just dont like when people want to answer someone's questions by directing them to their products or websites. Others have stated they dont mind. It's merely my opinion which it the grand scheme of things means very little. Our opinions are like the wind, they blow one way or the other and always change. |
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| Even if a particular CD or book or whatever will supply the answer to a question - if "buy this CD" becomes the only answer given by someone every time the question comes up, it will start to bother some people. It would get old even if the CD/book in question was not that persons. If it is that persons, it is really going to start to bug some people, no matter how much may have been contributed in the past. And some will understandably be suspicious of the motive.
Perhaps it seems efficient to recommend a CD that you know contains an answer - so why answer it again? But I don't think that's the point of a discussion forum, where most people expect to find answers with content and discussion. Taken to the extreme - if every question about a topic were answered with "buy this DVD" or "find a teacher" it would become a rather boring and pointless forum to read, no? Even if the answer were "its on my CD that I will send you for free" that's nice but there's still no information in the answer and it does nothing for others curious about the subject, which is another aspect of a forum. If someone asks for DVD recomendations, then it's appropriate to recommend one. If after some discussion on a topic with some ideas presented, it becomes clear that a particular DVD would still provide additional help, maybe then it becomes appropriate to mention it.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | So I guess this would annoy you................
For my new clothes line...check it out!
I do customs too. This kept my mind calm over the summer when things were really rough (some of you know what I'm talking about)
http://mishoga.zaadz.com/photos |
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| me? no, I think it's funny (or maybe sad) someone would make such a post in response to someone genuinely trying to explain a point of view. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | I meant no harm. Sorry, it's my sacastic side. And that wasn't directed at you.
I see no harm in someone offering something that another might like (if the one offering is an active participant on the forums). It's the spam that is annoying but the moderators do a great job at weeding out! |
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hi Mishoga, we must have a similar sense of humor. The clothes look great, and it's really nice to see you back here. |
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| Gee. This is too divine to miss. I am going to PM you on this. It is fantasic creation. I am getting a beautiful quilt from bstqltmkr to go to India. I consider that totally Yogic for what I want to do with it. This is what I want to do with it:
- first sleep in it outside in the Indian soil, preferably in winter
- then imagine Native Indians surrounding me outside under the dark sky
- and then imagine the whole world to be one, and achieve that in my Psychology until I reach the Union (not of Northern and Sourthern states only, but of the entire Universe).
I am sure that the above practice will lead to the goal. That is Quilt is the answer to what I am looking for.
I think I shall do some similar thing with your dresses.
Hurray.
mishoga - 2007-12-19 5:48 AM
So I guess this would annoy you................
For my new clothes line...check it out!
I do customs too. This kept my mind calm over the summer when things were really rough (some of you know what I'm talking about)
http://mishoga.zaadz.com/photos |
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| I wish to than aystam for this important post. Not because, I agree with the idea in the post, but because, it brings out an important topic and I disagree with the idea.
When a question is asked by a questioner, the question should be genuine. That means it is either for knowing answer to their own situation (I mean suggestion towards that) or trying to know something related to what they are trying to know. Now, question is in their hands, but not the answer. So, they should be prepared to get whatever answer they get. They can restate the question if they feel it necessary.
If the answer is always the same does not mean answer is undesirable or wrong or inappropriate. If the answerer feels that the answer is correct, the listener can take it, ignore it or practice it and then decide the utility of that answer.
I also agree that the questioner can get annoyed if the answer is same or if the answer is unexpected. And, that is exactly what the questioner should work on. Not getting annyed. That is the problem with the questioner.
For example: I shall give the following answer to almost all the questions on this board: Find an experienced teacher in your area. Experienced in what you are trying to know.
And, i am sure that i shall repeat this every time for every question. That may annoy the questioner. But, if you take the poll of how many listened and did that, you shall be surprised and possibly annoyed more than the repetitive answer.
Discussion without a purpose can be enjoyable to some and annoying to others. Similarly, repetitive answers can be useful to some and annyoying to others. This is same as Quilt made by Native Indian can be a Yoga Practice to some, and can be just protection from cold for others.
aystam - 2007-12-18 10:35 PM
Even if a particular CD or book or whatever will supply the answer to a question - if "buy this CD" becomes the only answer given by someone every time the question comes up, it will start to bother some people. It would get old even if the CD/book in question was not that persons. If it is that persons, it is really going to start to bug some people, no matter how much may have been contributed in the past. And some will understandably be suspicious of the motive.
Perhaps it seems efficient to recommend a CD that you know contains an answer - so why answer it again? But I don't think that's the point of a discussion forum, where most people expect to find answers with content and discussion. Taken to the extreme - if every question about a topic were answered with "buy this DVD" or "find a teacher" it would become a rather boring and pointless forum to read, no? Even if the answer were "its on my CD that I will send you for free" that's nice but there's still no information in the answer and it does nothing for others curious about the subject, which is another aspect of a forum. If someone asks for DVD recomendations, then it's appropriate to recommend one. If after some discussion on a topic with some ideas presented, it becomes clear that a particular DVD would still provide additional help, maybe then it becomes appropriate to mention it.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Well everyone knows I do beeswax candles and sometimes honey. Although...I think I'd be really poor if I made a living at this,  If ya'll are interested, you know where to find me. I'm not taking any more orders till the end of January though. I'm officially on vacation right now! |
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| I use these candles in my shrine and I can assure you that they serve me spiritually and healthily as they are clean. Also, I use this honey each Thursday in my Puja and i can also assure you that it has been divine.
I am not recommending usage of honey and candles. I am saying that if one already uses them, these ones are divine.
Cyndi - 2007-12-19 9:59 PM
Well everyone knows I do beeswax candles and sometimes honey. Although...I think I'd be really poor if I made a living at this, If ya'll are interested, you know where to find me. I'm not taking any more orders till the end of January though. I'm officially on vacation right now!
Edited by kulkarnn 2007-12-19 11:27 PM
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| Hey thanks everyone for their answers. Sometimes I discover things such as prejudices and hidden samskaras about myself by asking questions.
If you want any more answers from me on any topic you must pay $24.99 and go to my website www.RamIsGreat.com |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
|  Great sense of humour - priceless! Thanks Ram.  |
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Selling their products
