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| SOme studio wanted me to sign this ridiculous agreement- I was insulted and appalled- It's funny to me that it has evolved that Yoga instructers who make so little, are expected to sign these things! Are they for real- but I hear it's become quite the norm! Chefs among thousands of other proffessions are not expected to , yet resteraunts stand jhust as much to lose if their talent goes, well here is what I wrote back- I hope this inspires others to do the same! WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT!!!! THis is a democratic country and a capatilist one , not a monopolistic one- deal with it!!!!!! HERE's WHAT I WROTE:
I received the non-compete agreement in the mail and looked it over with my Husband. I cannot, in good conscience, sign such an agreement as written. I am sure many people simply sign these agreements without thinking about what they mean or understanding their legal ramifications, then simply do whatever they are going to do without concern for what was signed, but that is not how I prefer to behave.
Though I am fine with the terms of the non-raid clause, (This is a clause that says you cannot poach the teachers from the studio, and they cannot work for you for up to a year- even if they come to you on their own) my husband remarked after reading it, that when he left a job two years ago in game design they paid him $20,000 to sign a less restrictive version of such a clause. The classes I will be teaching at SAID STUDIO do not even guarantee that I will make $40 a a class, since it is comission based, yet I am being asked to sign a more restrictive agreement.
The non-solicitation agreement takes away my rights to teach one-on-one classes to anyone coming to me or at another studio, regardless of if I have had any contact with them. Additionally, SAID STYLE or a 'similar format' is a very vague definition – to a judge, any form of exercise would probably be considered similar.
The non-compete clause attempts to remove my rights to teach at many studios in the area, and as a freelance yoga teacher, who will only be teaching the one class at your studio, I make my living off of working at many different studios. For me to wave such a right, I would need to be earning enough from your studio that I don't have to work at all at other studios, and even then expecting me to not work in the area for up to a year after leaving your studio without compensation doesn't make sense. For example, your studio could, God forbid, close, then a studio in SAID TOWN may open, and I would not be able to teach a class in the style I choose, for up to a year. My husband has also signed non competes in the past, and they have all guaranteed his full time salary during the non-compete period.
In most states, non-compete agreements are unenforceable, and when taken to court are almost always thrown out. More importantly, they put an employer on the wrong foot with an employee by placing a large amount of legal weight and mistrust at the front of the relationship. I do not believe this leads to a healthy business relationship, as in all relationships a measure of trust makes them better. For $40 a week which isn't even guaranteed, I feel it is quite excessive to expect anyone to give up so many of their rights for so little compensation. I cannot know what opportunities might exist in the future, and it would be foolish of me to close so many doors for so little compensation.
Perhaps a modified version of a contract as follows would be acceptable:
1.You can leave non- Raid as is.
2.You can leave non-solicitation “a” as is, but take out “b”- or modify it to say that I cannot in any way approach students for one on one classes, but they can come to me on their own accord
3. You can take 3 out for the above reasons. (non-compete)
4.You can leave Non-disclosure as is. (you can't steal their database of students and use it to form your own)
I really hope that you understand my situation and reasons for not being able to sign such a document. I've always stuck up for what I believe, and I think that the true meaning of yoga encompasses an effort to be true to what we really are. I certainly understand your wanting to protect yourselves, however this document seems extremely excessive and expects me to give up far too many of my rights for such little compensation. I need to protect myself as well.
THen I ended on a good note telling them I still remained very excited to work at their studio, and that hopefully I still would.
Sincerely,
Stand up for YOURSELF!!!!!!
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| Good for you. I personally don't care for non-competes, unless there's a very valid reason for it. I think it's good you've made a distinction between a non-raid contract, and the nebulous contract they're asking you to sign. |
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| Interesting. I'm starting to teach at a new studio that is very close to my first studio and will directly complete with them...
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| Begun by St. Augustine and used as well during the Inquisition, many people, when tortured, were forced to sign confessions. They adopted a signature that included a small cf afterwards, which stands for contra firma, Latin for "against my will." Still good in courts today--I sign many "required" documents presented by looser businesses that way in order to "comply." |
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| I like 'cf' word than 'f' word. Thanks BBB. |
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| cf- does it really work?! in MA? anyone know?- yeah, but it's a thing of principle and ethics - what's newt they're going to want to know everyone you've ever taught- so studios can sue eachother?!
L |
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| BBN and others who may care--I figure we can rage against the machine and not get hired (like giving them the "F"); or act like we wanna play there game and then get hired and work incidiously from within. As noted, there's an ethics question...we can pull a Julia Butterfly Hill and sit in a tree for two years to make a public stand but then her tree got chopped down anyway. Being a covert op for most of my professional career, I like doing cunning activities from within....ethically of course. |
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| Okay say I did sign it with cf, But what happens when the studio in a nearby town- 10 miles away is within the ridiculous 15 mile radius non compete clause area, asks me to teach a couple calsses at their studio, and I accept?
THe first studio is going to know because they are obsessed with what goes on at the other studio. AGHHHH!! SO frustrating I just want to do yoga, teach yoga and hang out with my baby girl!!! ANd not deal with all this beuracratic bull I would of become a suit if I wanted to do that!
I still haven't heard the reply from the first studio after I sent that, we'll see what happens- but like my husband says- no hard feeling if they ditch me- THey are not people I want to work for anyway. (sour grapes) I think that it is important to be who we are and stand up -it's what yoga is- know thyself and be true to what the truth is, and their are many studios who do get it. Like said studio in nearby town- they are awesome and already told me that their is no such non-compete. anyway thanks for being there it is nice to hear some feedback from fellow teachers. Nice pic BTW!
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| Sounds like you have a fine common sense approach to the situation Lara. You know in your head and heart what do do and with whom you want to do it--you're obviously not one to be trifled with--give 'em he11. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
 
Location: Oregon | Non-comps are a pain in the ass and stupid. Sometimes they make sense. And sometimes they're unenforceable. You might check if your state is a right-to-work-state. Or....
My husband has also signed non competes in the past, and they have all guaranteed his full time salary during the non-compete period.
Sign the thing, but add your own clause like this. See if they even notice! |
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| Bruce - 2008-01-02 1:26 PM
Begun by St. Augustine and used as well during the Inquisition, many people, when tortured, were forced to sign confessions. They adopted a signature that included a small cf afterwards, which stands for contra firma, Latin for "against my will." Still good in courts today--I sign many "required" documents presented by looser businesses that way in order to "comply."
This is great information for everyone. Thanks Bruce |
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| i don't see why you have to be so extremely upset about them. you do not have to work for these people.
from my own experience, these clauses indicate people who are too insecure to emotionally handle this business. they make horrible employers. as soon as you start to shine, they become/feel insecure, and then they begin to clamp down in a variety of ways--never excluding harassment and emotional abuse to "break you down" all the while telling you that they're "helping you break down your ego." (but it's really about their ego).
i simply will not work for people who ask for these sorts of things in their contract. they're ridiculous.
in the past, i would tell the studio that they either have to salary at an amount that i want to earn or that i already earn as a yoga teacher. they typically do not like that, but want a teacher, and so they remove the clause from their contract.
as i said, i've never had to worry about the non-raid clause as i've never confronted it before, but i truly believe that students and teachers have total free will, and i'm not going to reject a student or teacher who chooses to follow me instead of staying put. the vast majority, btw, stay put--and these insecure people have, in the past and presently, accused me of "stealing" their clients and teachers.
i never asked these people to come, i never gave them information that i was leaving. i leave, they freak, they leave, they find me.
it's the insecurity that sees this as "theft" but it is not "theft" or "poaching." it is simply that a student has chosen based on his/her experience.
So, today, i avoid any employer who displays any sort of emotional insecurity about their business.
Edited by zoebird 2008-01-03 9:42 AM
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| also, i'd like to add that there are good times and places for non-compete clauses. typically, they exist in industries that have "trade secrets."
while a lot of people like to think of their yoga specialties as "trade secrets" or what have you, i think that this is simply not the case. the information is all too available to anyone.
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| zoebird - 2008-01-03 9:55 AM
also, i'd like to add that there are good times and places for non-compete clauses. typically, they exist in industries that have "trade secrets."
Exactly. I've been asked to sign two non-competes in my life. The first asked me to not take a job with my company's competitors and JUST them for the space of 6 months. In this case I was working for Matrox, who makes graphics cards for computers, and they asked me to not take a job with nVidia or ATI, who are their main competitors. I was free to go anywhere else in the computer industry at any time, but there was a serious potential for trade secrets to move in this way. It's also pretty common for these types of companies to poach each other's employees to avoid training costs.
The other time I was asked to sign one was when I became the employee of a contract firm. They asked that I not become the employee of the company they had me working for without their agreement. This is often done because they want a head-hunter's fee, and a great many company would like to get around this by hiring their employees directly. Since they found the place I was working for, I had no problems with this one either. |
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| If one is filled or filling with venom over such a contract how could one possibly offer something to students within a yogic context? When a reaction is disproportionate with the action preceding it then there is a likelihood more is going on than meets the eye.
It really doesn't warrant that much reaction. If it is a big deal, simply do not sign it because it doesn't sit well with you and goes against your grain, and do that with a kind smile and a thank you rather than bitterness...OR...sign it freely and agree to abide by the acceptance that is requisite for a contract to exist when it is offered.
Based on the OP's sharing I would be shocked if she signed such a document as it is apparent that the mere request of it is engaging some deeper emotions.
This IS Yoga.
Edited by purnayoga 2008-01-03 4:35 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
  
| It is an interesting issue that luckily, I have no experience with. I do teach in my home as well as in our studio. I asked the board of our studio if it was ok for me to post things about my studio and they said they thought it would be a conflict and they would rather I didn't. So I don't. I don't solicit students from the studio classes, though many of them know I have a class in my home. It wouldn't be nice, or yogic or good karma.  And they wouldn't lawyer up against me if a student or two moved to my home class. That would be dumb.  And expensive.  And only the lawyers would win.  And we don't want that!!!  |
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| I have to admit, I would do a non compete. For about a million (after taxes) a year. Otherwise I never would do one. Never really saw the benefit to myself in it. |
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| I have signed non-competes in my full time career and even had a lawyer look one of them over. She told me they are pretty much unenforceable but who would want to find out the hard way? I'm not a lawyer and legal advice online is worth the price you paid (zero). However, in my field (sales) if I jump ship and steal customers or employees that were introduced to me by that employer it would be unethical and the non-competes are pretty typical. When I have made job changes, I notified clients and coworkers where I was going (simple announcement, new contact info) but did not solicit them directly for a year. I responded to inquiries, I kept up relationships, I sent out general notices and mailings. This has worked against me as I did lose some key accounts I probably could have easily 'raided' but I feel it was the right way to handle the situation. In the OP's described circumstaince it does seem a little excessive, however one would have to wonder why it was presented in the first place. Has this business had a history of problems with employees freelancing and stealing their customers? Is it just a suggested form they got as part of a package from an attorney, accountant or business group? Do they feel it is important or will they just say, "oh yeah, this really doesn't apply to your situation". Sometimes with 'standard' forms it is easy to discuss and then add a statement or two (if you don't just get the form waived). For example you could add a statement that you are hired on a per class basis and reserve the right to teach at other times and locations either self employed or as a subcontractor to other area organizations ...blah...blah...blah. This is best handled, in my experience, after a discussion to clarify what both parties priorities are. The real question is, do you have the option to have a common sense conversation with a hiring manager about this? Good luck, I hope it works out for you. |
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| Okay, WOw!!! Thankyou all so much for all of the support. I think You are all awesome and right! I think I was feeling very unsure and insecure, simply becuase I have never been asked to sign one of these, and also because I wasn't sure if what SAID EMPLOYER had to say had any value to it. SO I was truly torn. ALso I really was looking forward to teaching the unique class (Mom's and babies) I was going to offer- just having had a child. It turns out she has no validity at all. I was really trying to see her point of view, I even compromised and told her I'd be willing to sign the contract as is, except to change the radius to 5 miles from the studio in the non- compete clause. Furthermore I told her I'd sign a confidentiality contract with her that says I won't discuss my contract with anyone from the studio, staff, students etc. (with the exception of all of you!  LOL ANd If she wanted I would sign a contract that says I would stay with them for a year or more, unless anything unforseen were to happen, etc.
I wrote "SUrely this would gaurentee you security and safety of your studio, while allowing me some freedom to teach outside of the 5 mile radius area.
She wrote back asking me if I would be willing to to sign a neighboring town contract, which I refused- because (I';m not stupid) that would encompass 10-15 miles anyhow!
I was like, come on are you kidding me?!
ANyhow, I know, I know, unecessary drama and tons of red flags- well, I guess I just needed to hear it from some collegues before giving her the finger (peace fingers I mean!)
L
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| i bet that a church, wellness center, or community center would love to host your class. look for alternative spaces to rent, too.
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| Everyone had great advice. This studio sound like a tough place to work. I'd keep looking. |
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| I wouldn't suggest a clause that forces you to work for them for at least an year when you already suspect they might be difficult employers.
Anyway, sounds like they are willing to negotiate, so good luck with that.
On a side note, I believe cf actually means coactus feci, or "done under coercion". Firma means assurance and contra against, but I'm not sure what the expression contra firma means. In any case, I doubt it would make any difference in this situation, since she's not being forced to take the job. She's obviously free to turn it down.
Edited by tmarques 2008-01-05 2:47 PM
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| I got the ole contra firma from a first year law class over 30 years ago--memory may not be 100% -- Zoebird, you wanna arbitrate? |
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| So In the end she replied that it was too difficult to try and figure out what a 5 mile radius is?!
even though a 10 mile or 15 mile radius was clearly okay with her to try and figure out!!And that maybe it would work if I agreed not to work in adjacent towns- which would in some cases be 15 miles away from the studio! This is what I wrote back:
Hey,
I just got this.
I hope you realize in almost all of the towns in the adjacent towns proposal, encompass a 10- 15 mile radius! It is basically saying the same thing. Alexandra, I can easily give you a link that shows you exactlly where a 5 mile radius would lie! Look I feel like I said before that I am giving you everything that you could possibly want to ensure that your studio is WELL protected, I think
that it is AWESOME if we can make this work, but come on now. It is still the same thing 10 mile radius. , look, here is the link :
http://www.maps.com/radiusmaps.aspx?nav=MS
All you have to do is enter the studio's info and then click on "draw the sample map" (make sure to pick the biggest size you can- so you can clearly see where the radius is- then you can reference google maps to reference.
I am willing to bend over backwards for the studio, give you a huge comitment when in return I am not gaurenteed anything, and all I ask is to be able to have freedom to teach outside a 5 mile radis of the studio, which is giving me less freedom than what any studio, has ever givinme. And I would be Giving you the best I can give any studio- full heartedly!!
Lara
So In the end she replied that it was too difficult to try and figure out what a 5 mile radius is?!
even though a 10 mile or 15 mile radius was clearly okay with her to try and figure out!! SOOO ridiculous, and then she pulled spiritual manipulation on me, saying that in her heart she felt that maybe I wasn't ready to take on a role at the studio, and that in her heart she felt that something was telling her that it doesn't feel rightand that we shouldn't go ahead-
In your heart? How about the reality is that becasue she couldn't manipulate me to give up all my rights she feels that it is okay to powertrip me into basically saying that "I am not enlightened enough to see her side, so it shouldn't work! |
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| AND BY THE WAY,
it is not okay to cut someone down and manipulate them spiritually when you don't get your way. I see a lot of teachers take on the, people are just not enlightened like me, when they don';t get what they want= highest form of manipulation! |
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STAND UP AGAINST NON COMPETES!
