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on opening the hips
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OrangeMat
Posted 2008-02-12 9:30 PM (#103352)
Subject: on opening the hips


I was having a discussion with another yoga teacher, a relatively new teacher like myself, and we were talking about one of our favorite topics, hip openers. She tends to have tight hips, and mine tend to be more open, so she was asking if I had any advice for her lately. It had been several days that she'd done any asana, I believe, but rather had been doing quite a bit of walking, and so now her hips felt tighter than usual.

So when she asked me for pose suggestions, immediately I replied "standing poses" as I've learned so well from the knowledgeable folks here , as well as from personal experience. I asked her what her usual tactic was then, for when she needed to open her hips. She started to list poses such as baddha konasana, pigeon prep, double pigeon, etc. And without really realizing what I was saying, my comment to her on that was "So you tend to employ poses that require open hips in order to open your hips."

Hmm.

Counter-intuitive? Or just an alternate method to proceed to the same end?

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Posted 2008-02-12 11:40 PM (#103356 - in reply to #103352)
Subject: RE: on opening the hips


I believe my reply to "counter-intuitive or alternate method to same end" would be "neither".
That is unless the "end" in question is merely a proficiency or opening in external rotation.

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OrangeMat
Posted 2008-02-13 7:25 AM (#103374 - in reply to #103356)
Subject: RE: on opening the hips


Maybe I wasn't clear in my question.

My understanding, and experience, with specific hip-opener poses (such as baddha konasana and pigeon prep) has been that one normally needs to do other poses (standing poses as an example) before attempting the hip-openers. Starting one's practice with the first pose being baddha konasana, then, would not accomplish as much "opening" as, say, working the actions of shins in, thighs out in a wider stance uttanasana. Or is this just my particular flavor of practice that suits my body?

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Posted 2008-02-13 7:42 AM (#103375 - in reply to #103352)
Subject: RE: on opening the hips


it might be fair to assume that she doesn't see the various standing poses as "hip openers" and sees them differently, and then classifies these postures as her "hip openers." many of the standing postures, without back bending, also prepares the back for deeper back bends, but most people dont' consider them "back strengthening" or "back preparing" postures.

it's largely due to how we think about postures. The western mind likes to think of things in isolation, due to the nature of how western science (empirical science) studies things. the idea is to try to isolate things out into it's smallest part and observe it's process individually, rather than looking at a totality, which is a more eastern approach.

this is often why people look at certain poses in certain ways--that standing poses work leg strength and flexibility in different ways, that one-legged standing postures work balance, that forward bends work hamstrings and so on. while these things are true, they are also only part of the whole.

this is also part of the process of how the mind develops around information. consider alex grey's tryptic "the healer" (http://www.alexgrey.com), in which the first image shows the common association of the body, then the center picture shows that body divided into many parts (as if pulled apart and isolated out), and then the third picture shows a unified body at all levels of being, something Alex is particularly adept at depicting.

it is much the same for yoga teachers. we begin with a gross and unsubtle understanding of the body, and it's general relationship to a given healing modality (in this case, asana). then, we begin to explore more and more, and our understanding becomes more subtle, and not necessarily unified.

just as one can say "these are hip opening poses" for example, another could be going "more deeply" and discover that "these are thyroid balancing poses" or "these are poses for hands" and what have you. but even still, like the second picture--this is that empirical, isolating principle to see an individual posture for a specific use, rather than the totality of it's effect on the body.

after a measure of knowledge is gained about a posture and a multiplicity of understanding comes into focus, the individual moves into the third stage which is that of seeing the posture at all levels of being and how it works and effects all levels.

and therefore, one can take the approach that it is standing postures that open the hips and prepare for the hip openers, and that the hip openers also open the lower back which prepares for back bends, and that the standing postures access the belly deeply to also prepare and secure the back for back bends, and that all of these postures work at energetic and spiritual levels.

it might also be noted that the use of Ken Wilber's concept of "stages of consciousness" might be helpful as well (http://www.kenwilber.com). Wilber writes that individuals go through stages of consciousness and that at any given point, and individual may be "very advanced" in their conscisousness in one aspect, and very "base" or lower in consciousness in another aspect of their lives.

this is useful in connection with Alex Grey's artworks, so that we do not get caught in the idea that we "transcend" into healer at one point, in totality of understanding, and then stay there infinitely, but rather we are constantly moving between the three pictures in regards to any number of aspects of yoga practice (asana or otherwise), as we continue to learn and grow.
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Posted 2008-02-13 7:52 AM (#103377 - in reply to #103352)
Subject: RE: on opening the hips


as to the specific question about the formation of practice, there are practices where i start with floor work and do no standing postures. i do go incrementally deeper--starting with child's pose, then lunges, then moving into various seated openers, then moving into things such as "frog" (in the yin yoga perspective) and pigeon series and possibly ending with deep padmasana (lotus) variations.

this is an effective method for opening the hips, and it certainly focuses on the hips in various angles/rotations, and so it functions as a "hip opening series"--and rather in isolation.

i find it less difficult if i do a nice, extended "warm up" of a variety of postures--standing, forward bends, back bends, and then a number of "hip openers"--but there's nothing inherently wrong with forgoing this.

i think my favorite times to work the hips and back deeply are toward the end of extended practices. GJ might chime in on his experience of the 2 hr and 45 minute session that we did at the retreat in october; i tend to have the best possible outcome for hips and back if i spend 1.5 hrs working a variety of standing postures, and then .5 hrs doing hip openers and .5 hrs of back bends, followed by a nice 15 minutes of savasana, and then move into pranayama, meditation, and finally mantra.

i mean, a nice 3-3.5 hr practice is fabulous.

but not practical for everyone, every day.
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tourist
Posted 2008-02-13 9:56 AM (#103381 - in reply to #103377)
Subject: RE: on opening the hips



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
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OM - I think that most folks do think of those as hip opening poses and most think of standing poses as strengthening, but I agree with you. It is a bit like saying I want to work on my cardio so I am going to do a marathon next week. Or my delightful dance partner deciding which steps to put in our choreography by watching the world champions. Not a bad thing to emulate, but perhaps a few intermediate steps are in order. There is nothing wrong with the poses she mentions (though we do not teach the pigeon poses to beginners due to concerns about knee issues) but doing a strong practice of standing poses with a good understanding of how to work the poses well will get her there just as fast and maybe faster - not that speed is the goal. To the standing poses I would add supta padangustasana series as well as utthita hasta padangustasana. Actually, Gordon has a nice list of hip poses that should do the trick nicely.
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OrangeMat
Posted 2008-02-13 12:41 PM (#103402 - in reply to #103377)
Subject: RE: on opening the hips


Thanks for your replies, ZB and tourist. I do want to point out that my point in asking my question here wasn't that I was trying to prove my viewpoint is right vs. my friend's, or that her approach might be ineffective, not in the slightest. Just that when she said she goes right for "the gold", so to speak, with the ultimate hip-opener poses (padmasana was another one she had listed, forgot to mention), I was just very surprised. It had just never occurred to me to start at the end.

ZB, I couldn't find the exact painting you referenced on the site you listed, but I did find it here. Wow, it's pretty wild.

Hmm, so you don't consider lunges to be standing poses. Interesting, maybe that's the root of my confusion here then. Just to be perfectly clear, my definition of a lunge encompasses both the Virabhadrasana I style pose with the back heel lifted (high lunge) as well as when the fingertips are on the floor framing the front foot, back knee either on the floor or straight back, toes tucked, heel lifted (low lunge). Since both feet are making contact with the floor, that's enough to qualify as "standing" for me. And also, with enough attention to alignment and engagement, that's what my body requires first before going into the seated openers as you described. But without those lunges, I'd be toast. I was just wondering if this wasn't a universal thing, that's all.

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Posted 2008-02-13 12:50 PM (#103404 - in reply to #103352)
Subject: RE: on opening the hips


i call that posture anjenayasana 1, with the back knee and heel lifted--with hands on the floor or overhead or anywhere in between, as a standing posture.

and of course, it's obviously related to, or a variation or prep for anjenayasana 2, with back knee down and the deeper versions which lead toward hanumanasana (splits), of which i would consider these also similar to 'standing' postures, but instead i consider them "floor postures" or kneeling/seated postures.

but i don't think it matters much.

i do love that alex grey.
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