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 ankle problems in mari bModerators: Moderators Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
| Yoga -> Ashtanga Yoga | Message format |
iandicker |
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| hnia |
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| lewellen17 |
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| iandicker |
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| Lisa, It's only the right ankle, left seems ok. I think it's pretty well up in the crease. I've been going via the janu a route and then sliding my foot across to lotus. That seems to help a bit. The pains starts as I bind my hands and it's definitely not the nice stretch kind of feeling I get with the other ankle. It is worse when I bend though as I don't feel it nearly as much with mari d. I'm bending about half way I suppose. It's tricky to focus on relaxing into a bend when your ankle is letting you know something else isn't right! It's getting better slowly though and I managed to bind mari d on the right side this week for the first time on my own!  Ian | |||
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| Nick |
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    Location: London, England | ian****er - 2008-04-20 8:43 AM Lisa, It's only the right ankle, left seems ok. I think it's pretty well up in the crease. I've been going via the janu a route and then sliding my foot across to lotus. That seems to help a bit. The pains starts as I bind my hands and it's definitely not the nice stretch kind of feeling I get with the other ankle. It is worse when I bend though as I don't feel it nearly as much with mari d. I'm bending about half way I suppose. It's tricky to focus on relaxing into a bend when your ankle is letting you know something else isn't right! It's getting better slowly though and I managed to bind mari d on the right side this week for the first time on my own! Ian Hi Ian, Sorry to hear that ankle/foot is still giving you gyp. Just in case this helps, can we talk about the raised bent leg-the opposite leg to the one in lotus? Not sure if we've discussed this before, so stop me if you want. The usual instruction in all four of the marichyasana postures is to have the heel in front of the sitting bone with the foot pointing forwards. Now, I would say that this instruction is only important if we want to train a parade ground formation of students, in which case, they would preferably be all the same height with a 'long bone length ratio' of similiar proportions. In reality, of course, this isn't the case. In which case, the following might not be applicable to you, but I find that most people do better with the following modifications. Marichasana A and C. These two forward bends often both benefit from externally rotating the tibia so that the foot turns to the side as you flex your knee to bring the heel of the foot towards the sitting bone. This action uses the biceps femoris muscle (lateral hamstrings) to produce external rotation of the knee joint. Incidentally, this is exactly what should be going on in the opposite leg in lotus-makes life simpler This external rotation also makes the lower leg effectively shorter, a fact which is demonstrated by walking in the sand-see how the footprints all turn out-you lower leg externally rotates as you bring the leg forwards for the next step, so the foot doesn't hit the ground. What this means in Marichasana A and C is that the raised knee is both not as high, nor in as much front of the torso-it's pulled out a little bit-less of a hurdle for you to skirt around-so the spine is more stable as the hips are stretched more-a perfect situation. Marichasana B and D. The obstacle for you to overcome in the two twists is changed by virtue of the torso approaching the leg from a different direction-you are turned towards the side of the thigh, rather than the front of the thigh. In this case, it may be helpful to move the foot out to the side as you flex the knee to bring the foot back towards the sitting bone. This effectively lowers the knee closer to the floor, so the obstacle is lowered a bit. It will also increase that lovely stretch on the side of the hip/thigh which is a feature of these two poses. The above should also make it easier to bind the hands in all four postures-you want to attain a bind which is strong enough to withstand the two arms pulling on each other via the hands/wrists, which pulls the torso forwards in the forward bends, and pulls the thoracic spine into greater rotation in the twists. Hopefully, these mods will also mean that the lotus leg also benefits from not being presented with such a difficult obstacle to good ankle/foot posture-for instance, moving the foot away from the mid-line in marichasana D effectively removes some of the push of that leg on the leg in lotus. I think Take care Nick Edited by Nick 2008-04-20 10:13 AM | ||
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| iandicker |
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| Nick, Sorry to be thick again, but please go over the foot/hip/knee placement in mari b and d. Not sure I've quite got what you mean here. Probably needs a picture Cheers for the help though, Ian | |||
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| Nick |
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Location: London, England | Hi Ian, Sorry, will try to be clearer-sit in dandasana, then bend the right knee to bring the heel towards the pelvis. As you bring it back, move the foot to the right, but keep it facing forwards. Now, the knee will not be above the foot when you are viewed from the front, nor to the outside of the foot. It will be placed towards the mid-line (medially). If you stand up and bend your knee to kick yourself in the bum, I believe I'm right in saying that the back of most people's heel will get to a point above the level of the sitting bone. This means that if you sit on the floor and try to do any of the marichyasana postures, the length of the lower leg is greater than the length of the upper leg-this isn't actually true, but the length of the upper leg is effectively shorter when sitting in this position. This means that in all four postures, the practicioner may be at a disadvantage if they try to keep the lower leg in the same plane as the upper leg, and the mods that I outlined will rectify these differences. I'm not too happy with the wording I've used above-but hopefully it's clearer than if I went all sciency Not to you with your physics background, maybe Can't win Nick | ||
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| iandicker |
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| Nick |
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Location: London, England | Hi Ian, Where to place the foot? That, unfortunately, is multi-factorial, ans should also change the place it goes if you start of unskilful and inflexible and then make progress-so I'm afraid I'm going to have to say 'that depends.' in other words, 'Not telling!' Having said that, both of the lotus positions, B and D, benefit from putting the leg that is going to be raised-i.e. not the lotus leg, into the janu sirsasana A position, then putting the lotus leg into position-the classic half lotus. I think many students put the lotus leg in position with the other leg still straight, so that the lotus foot starts offf on the front of the opposite thigh, rather than on the side of the thigh, which is where the lotus foot is going to end up in either of the two postures. As the foot then has to skid or slide around onto the medial thigh, I think that if you aren't careful, the foot supinates. If you actually sit in half lotus first, it is also easier to get the dorsum of the foot onto the medial thigh surface, so that the foot is then able to stay pointed much more easily as you bring yourself into either of the postures-that might help in stopping that strain. It might also be a good idea not to try for a few days to heal any injuries to that foot's ligaments, and then try again every couple of days, and just put the foot on the ground, rather than in lotus, on the other days. Then make progress without pain or injury-I don't know what stage you are at, and if you want to rehabilitate an injury, you have to make sure you don't bite off more than you can chew. Nick | ||
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| iandicker |
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| Nick |
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Location: London, England | Hi Ian, Hey! I found the spitting image of you on this site: http://media.wiley.com/assets/7/03/0-7645-5116-7_0706.jpg So all you do from there is turn the legs over, and then move the foot attached to the raised knee to the side-does that make more sense? When you have got the shoulder over the knee, contract the muscles on the side and back of the hip (both sides), so the knee of the riased leg pushes on the shoulder from behind, because you have bound the hands, this should introduce more rotation into the thoracic spine, and increase the stretch down the outside of that leg. Take care Nick | ||
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| hnia |
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 Marchi D is so tough. That's great Ian. Good luck on the other side... | |||
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| iandicker |
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| Nick |
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Location: London, England | Hi Ian, That picture is really spooky, isn't it? Obviously you've been doing some modelling in the past that you weren't telling us about. This ankle/foot problem is endemic in all forms of yoga. It occurs in many positions-the standing poses, for example, where it often occurs in conjunction with knee hyper-extension-in triangle pose, for example, the foot of the leading leg often supinates as the student places most of the weight on the heel of that foot, which then locks the knee without any muscular effort-the knee ends up being pushed towards hyper-extension as it is then hanging off the anterior cruciate ligament. In janu sirsasana A and B, the foot of the bent leg often supinates-you will often see the foot of the straight leg supinating too-so the soles of most peope's feet tend to turn medially. I think it is important to recognize that whilst there are a lot of postures where this occurs, the objective should be to accomplish the posture without letting over-supination become a postural habit-so we are putting ourselves into that posture as a means of recognizing forces which make us supinate, and then contesting the challenge. The first series is full of 'supination traps' which may take a while to recognize, but I feel can be enormously beneficial to the student who tackles the challenge-this way, you are learning from what your own anatomy is telling you, rather than taking informatin on board which is not pertinent to your own body. Nick | ||
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