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| Hi everyone! I'm new here! Hopefully this isn't repetitive of anything anyone else has already posted.
Anyway, I'm a former ballet dancer who has been practicing yoga now for about two years. I'm very flexible in most aspects but I'm pretty inflexible when it comes to poses like pigeon and lotus. I've also recently started doing triathlons, so I swim, bike, and run a lot. As of late, my hips have really been bothering me. I'm sure they've probably taken a beating from dancing, but now running and certain yoga poses like pigeon really seem to exacerbate the pain. Does anyone have any ideas about what's wrong and what I can do to ease the pain? Should I stop doing pigeon altogether?
I'm not big on taking meds, so I'd rather not resort to any NSAIDs or other medications like acetaminophen.
Thanks!
Anna |
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| Just prop your hip and thigh on a blanket.
You'll be fine. |
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| where is the pain? what is the type of pain? how are you getting into the pose and what does the pose 'look like' for you? there are many different things that could be at play here, so more information would be very helpful.
pigeon and lotus require *significant* hip flexibility, and it's quite possible that you should be working on other poses first, then variations of these poses before trying more advanced versions of the poses.
additionally, if running is bothering them as well, you may find it helpful to talk to your doctor (or a chiropractor) to determine if there is a structural issue at play. |
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| I salute you for your past ballet success. However:
What do you mean by your (stupid. Sorry to say this. But, it is true.) enquiry.
Stop any practices that overwork the Hip. And, do only what is possible and enjoy it.
annabanana - 2008-05-06 12:19 PM
Hi everyone! I'm new here! Hopefully this isn't repetitive of anything anyone else has already posted.
Anyway, I'm a former ballet dancer who has been practicing yoga now for about two years. I'm very flexible in most aspects but I'm pretty inflexible when it comes to poses like pigeon and lotus. I've also recently started doing triathlons, so I swim, bike, and run a lot. As of late, my hips have really been bothering me. I'm sure they've probably taken a beating from dancing, but now running and certain yoga poses like pigeon really seem to exacerbate the pain. Does anyone have any ideas about what's wrong and what I can do to ease the pain? Should I stop doing pigeon altogether?
I'm not big on taking meds, so I'd rather not resort to any NSAIDs or other medications like acetaminophen.
Thanks!
Anna |
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| As my Tibetan Healer in Vancouver says "Human beings!". What can you do with them:-)
Though it may be "nice" or even "impressive" at times, Yoga is not about flexibility. It is about moving some things and stabilizing others. In fact flexible students are far more difficult to teach and at far greater risk than stiff bodied students.
A reference to pigeon, as another respondent points out, is far too vague. Where is the front knee relative to the wrist on the same side of the body please? Where is the heel of the bent leg in relation to the front of the pelvis on the opposite side of the body?
If you are also experiencing "issues" with padmasana then it is likely you are having an issue with external rotation of the femur, thighbone or "hip" (those terms are used interchangeably). I tend not to use the term "hip" too much because it is misleading, other than to give a general location.
The femur or "hip" has six movements - flexion, extension, internal rotation, external rotation, abduction, and adduction. The activities you site tend to be heavy or exclusive on hip flexion and extension. Swimming is the only one that has some "other" movement, usually internal rotation here and there. Point being if you are only going to use your hips for two of their six movements then do not be surprised when they are out of balance.
Any sharp pain in a joint is a sign to stop immediately. There should never be sharp pain in a joint, period.
If you are doing the pose incorrectly OR you are having sharp pain in the knee or ankle joint(s) in Padmasana or Eka Pada Rajakapotasana then either a) do them properly, b) do preparation poses to open that which needs to be opened, or c) stop.
Edited by purnayoga 2008-05-06 2:00 PM
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| I suppose that I could have been a bit more clear on what I meant by pain in my hips. First of all, the pain does not occur during the pose(s), so there wouldn't have been any reason to stop doing the pose. I have a general achy feeling in the actual joint (near the ischial tuberosities)when I wake up in the mornings and they feel rather stiff. I suppose that I am assuming that the pain is exacerbated by hip-intensive stretches such as pigeon because days following practice where I did not do the pose, the pain was not as heightened as days following practice where I did do the pose. I am only 25 which would be rather young for arthritis, although, I suppose it is possible.
As far as alignment, the heel of my (front) bent leg is directly in front of the opposite hip and my knee is directly behind the wrist on the same side.
Also, I'm aware that yoga is not about flexibility. I just thought mentioning my general flexibility in other areas as well as my inflexibility in this area might be pertinent. I have worked to control my flexibility in many poses.
And for what it's worth, it isn't very helpful and also largely unnecessary to tell someone that they are asking a stupid question. I came here to look for help, not to be chastised for my mistaken stupidity.
Thanks,
Anna |
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| purna's comment about innate flexibility hampering a yoga practice (which isn't how he described it, but is an extension of his point and how I will describe it), is a valid one. it sounds like you realize this, but I wonder if you've had enough joint injury and experience to learn how strong the very small stability inducing muscles you have are, and how their strength may vary from day to day. I say this being hyperflexible myself, and coming - very reluctantly  - to the conclusion that flexibility had to take a backseat to using poses to build strength. sometimes, I simply don't have the strength to go as deep into a pose as I may want to, so I have to be content without any stretch, and simply stay active with the rest of the actions of the pose. And, you'll have to forgive most of us, the majority of people who come to yoga list "increase my flexibility" as one of their goals.  It's not entirely invalid to make the assumption - so thank you for clarifying.
anyhow, back to the hip pain. I find it interesting that you describe it as an achy feeling near the ischial tuberosities, since that's actually not part of the hip joint. an achy pain generally suggests that you've over stretched. I was unclear on the wording (probably just what we're all used to in how to describe things), is your front (bent) leg heel in at the groin, or is the front lower leg parallel to the front of mat. If the latter, I would back off, and draw the foot in closer to the groin, decreasing the external rotation on the thigh. (If you're feeling the same thing in lotus, it may well be tight adductors/internal rotators - which your other activities may be contributing to.) Ironically, it's usually the pyriformis which acts up in this pose, but that connects near the middle of the sacrum to the top of the femur, which isn't quite what you're describing. Of course, it's a small area.
Are your sits bones both on the floor? Do you experience the same pain the next day if you back off on the pose? Are you doing the forward fold variation or the traditional backbend? What actions are you actively working while in the pose? |
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| My front leg is in towards the groin and my teacher(s) have instructed me (and others in our classes) that the farther away from the groin the heel is, the more intense the stretch will be (and potentially knee strain, if not done properly). So I always make sure to keep my heel in close to my groin. Also, my sit bone on the bent leg is usually slightly off the ground during the pose. We generally practice the forward fold version of the pose which we sometimes follow up with the backbend (however that is more rare). Due to my inflexibility in this area, I have sometimes kept my torso upright during the pose because the forward fold was too much. In lotus (well, I suppose half-lotus since I am unable to do a full lotus), I stay lengthened through the spine and do not attempt the forward fold since my knee does not go down to my ankle.
Additionally, my favorite and most well-rounded teacher/instructor quit the gym I attend and now only offers classes in the morning when I'm working, so the only instructor that I am left with has had hip replacements on both hips and tends to avoid poses that he has trouble with.
As far as clarification goes, I apologize for not better anticipating that you wouldn't be able to glean what I truly meant from what I wrote. My ballet training may have somewhat hindered me in that I have maintained a certain level of flexibility that may be detrimental to my practice, but it has also made me hyper-aware of my alignment and used to making small adjustment that make a big difference, which I think is a good thing. One of the biggest challenges of coming from a ballet background has been resisting the urge to turn everything out! I love half-moon because I get to turn out, haha. |
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| annabanana - 2008-05-06 4:51 PM
... Also, my sit bone on the bent leg is usually slightly off the ground during the pose. We generally practice the forward fold version of the pose which we sometimes follow up with the backbend (however that is more rare). ...
given this, the advice suggested above, to prop that sit bone up on a pillow or blanket, is vital. both should be equally supported (so the muscles and ligaments have one less way to get overstretched). bring the bent leg foot in all the way, if it isn't already, and consider doing almost no forward folding. if you can pivot entirely from the hips (requires significant hip flexibilty), that's one thing, but - when I have overstretching in the hip - I make sure to avoid any bending from the waist that might encourage more bend in the hip than it should be getting. it may or may not yet make a whole lot of sense in the body, at those minute levels of details, what is a bend from the hips and what is from the waist, but you'll likely pick it up quickly as you focus on it.
Due to my inflexibility in this area, I have sometimes kept my torso upright during the pose because the forward fold was too much. In lotus (well, I suppose half-lotus since I am unable to do a full lotus), I stay lengthened through the spine and do not attempt the forward fold since my knee does not go down to my ankle.
I can probably best only share my experience here - in some of my practices, when working on poses that stress the hips, I may sometimes have to get almost nothing out of the pose from a stretch perspective. instead, pigeon would rather be an exercise in keeping the back leg active through the back foot, the external rotators of the front leg active, the abdominals and muscles of the back maintaining the rest of the pose. A lot of work, not necessarily a lot of stretch. |
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| Darling Anna: I apologize. My use of the word 'stupid' was done with love. Anyway, that is my mistake or out of culture, perhaps. Anyway, what I meant was:
You need to stop using the hips as much as possible. They are already over used. But, that may be Challenging, I mean to give up jogging, etc.
Anyway, let me also give positive suggestion: Take to swimming.
Neel
annabanana - 2008-05-06 3:31 PM
And for what it's worth, it isn't very helpful and also largely unnecessary to tell someone that they are asking a stupid question. I came here to look for help, not to be chastised for my mistaken stupidity.
Thanks,
Anna |
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| Anna,
I'm in agreement with you on all fronts. It seems as though the pose, as you describe it, is safe relative to positioning. I did realize you would know most of that stuff I wrote however when students come from dance or gymnastics (or Cirque du Soleil for that matter) the flexibility thingy must be run up the flagpole.
There are two possibilities that come to mind based on your anatomical reference of the sitting bones (ishial tuberosities). The first is that the external rotation is aggravating one of the numerous ligaments supporting the sacrum or more likely, that you're hamstring attachment is being overworked, typically in some symmetrical pose - paschimotanasana, uttanasana, adho mukha svanasana. |
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Location: London, England | Hi Anna,
To be more accurate, I would have to see you doing the pose and for you to point out the injury site-but let's assume it's your hamstrings that are playing up. Do you know if you stand with too much curve (lordosis) in your low back? I ask because it may be that this is because of tight hip flexors-muscles that bring your knee to your chest. This means that when you bring the leg forwards into the pose, these muscles contract. So I'm wondering if they are already tight, and then you are tightening them even further by moving into the pose. This sets up a mechanism for hamstring injury-the pelvis tilts forwards-the brim of the pelvis at the front drops-which is called anterior tilt- causing the sit ischeal tuberosities to rise, which then puts the hamstrings in a lengthened state, causing them to become dysfunctional. Then they start to get injured from being put under undue strain.
Because you are feeling pain outside of the pose, particularly in the morning, I'm wondering if this is the pain mechanism, as the pose itself is not affected, but the effects of having your posture altered for 24 hours a day are beginning to be felt in the hamstring muscles ?
There are several ways of helping with this particular posture-it is actually a very complex pose-their are several forces pulling the body in different directions, and it is up to the skill and awarenes of the practicioner to make sense of these opposing forces, and to create fixed points at specific joints which then act as pulleys-then the forces are used to optimize one's posture, rather than de-optimizing it's posture so that you are more likely to be injured.
Take care
Nick |
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| All I can say is don't push yourself too much...hands up to you great ballerina...If the pain cause too long better consult the expert...  |
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Hip pain and pigeon pose
