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Lower Back - HELP(warning LONG
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fyre
Posted 2008-09-17 1:49 AM (#110869)
Subject: Lower Back - HELP(warning LONG


I'm sorry for the length of this but I want to give a total full story so maybe someone can suggest what is wrong!!!

I've been practicing for a little less than 3 months. However, yes I know I will get flack for this... I practice quite a lot. I take 13 to 15 classes a week - 5 days a week (was 6 but my work schedule changed). Some of my classes are open level and an hour and some are level 2 which are 1 1/2 hours and one is level 2/3 which is 1:45 (I only take that class because I absolutely love that teacher and she said she felt I was up to speed to take that class).

Anyway, I could not touch my toes at all when I started yoga, now I can put my head all the way to my knees and beyond with my feet flexed. I can handstand ( only maybe 10 seconds without the wall), headstand in the middle of the room, my forearm stand is so so - haven't figured out how to do that well and comfortably yet. I am almost almost at side crow but I need a bit more arm strength.

Obviously, some people and one or two teachers think my practice is a bit excessive, but some of my teachers understand. It (as much as I practice) is what I NEED and want strongly at this point in my life. On the 2 days a week I don't take class, I feel something is so missing and I can not wait to be back on my mat. I take specific teachers who I feel I get something specific from. I can't even picture which classes I would cut out if I were to cut down.. i don't want to cut down. When my back will finally let me just practice again, I will add a meditation class to my schedule weekly and perhaps a basics class (as one teacher would like me to do, she said she takes basics classes and I should) to round out my practice.

The first few weeks of yoga, after a few days, I started jumping around all over taking 2 to 3 classes some days in different places. I didn't know what I was looking for per se, but I was searching. At first, I was SO sore every day - mainly my legs and quads and hamstrings and my arms and chest muscles somewhat. I kept working through it and pushing myself. Then, I found a studio I absolutely love and joined there and take classes there exclusively. The daily soreness went away for the most part after maybe 3 weeks. But, I encountered different strains along the way. I pulled something in my upper back behind the shoulder blade on both sides different times that lasted a week or so and I kept working through it (despite the fact that every chatarunga attempt was killing me). I pulled or strained something in my lower back about a month and a half ago and that lasted a week or so as well but that totally went away. Then, my hamstrings were SOOO sore and tight about a month ago for several days. The thing is once I start class every day, once I get warmed up and we start flowing and the intensity builds, it seems that the pain diminishes and I can go as far or further in every stretch or bend or pose.
Then the soreness in my hamstrings eased up except my right leg seemed to be intensely cramped. It was the whole thigh and it felt like the kind of cramp you get in your sleep but it wouldn't let go. I went to the hospital (I have no insurance) and they gave me a muscle relaxer. It took 3 days but it finally finally eased up. Then that same 'cramping' came back and I realized when my leg was hurting my lower back was hurting and as the days went on the pain in my back got worse and worse. Yes, I kept going to classes thinking I'd work it out. The pain in my leg was entirely from my back. It did not run down my ass or the back of my leg sa sciatica most often does, however.

One day I was in so much pain, I didn't go to class (on a day I was taking one class only anyway) and the next day was my day off from yoga because of work. Then, a day or two later, the pain in my back was so bad, I was beside myself. If my apartment were on a higher floor, I would have jumped out of my window. There was no relief.. standing, sitting, laying, bath, shower, I was in excruciating agony every minute. I decided no matter what I had to go to a chiropractor. I was calling chiropractors crying hysterical from the pain.

Long story short, I ended up going 3 times within maybe 5 days before the pain subsided almost totally. He did electro stimulation and adjustments and said it is my sciatic nerve inflamed. I took a week and a half off miserably from yoga and then I felt the pain was pretty much gone and I went back religiously to my classes. I decided to take one class at a time, though, and decided if I felt pain at all, I'd not go to another class but would stop until I was out of pain again. I was fine for another week plus one day. Some days, I'd wake up and be in some pain but once I got up and moved, I felt better throughout the day. The pain was not the same level at all as when I was in agony. It was bearable and often subsided during the day on its own. After my classes, I felt much better and the heat in my body and moving and stretching seemed to ease that bit of pain from the morning by the middle of the day. Nothing in class was particularly bothering it or me and I felt good, really good. I also eased up on pushing myself every minute so hard and concentrated A LOT on thinking about alignment in every assana, spacing in my back and breathing breathing breathing. I laid off shoulder stands totally because I feel that is a lot of pressure on the lower back for me.

Last Wednesday, I did my two early afternoon hour classes and felt fine. I left the studio and went to run some errands and do some stuff before my night class later. During the day, on the train, when the train stopped, it seemed to cause me pain to the right lower back and I was like Ow, that hurts. Then, I was walking and my heel got caught in a sidewalk crack causing a slight jerk to my back and that really hurt and aggravated whatever happened on the train.

During my night class, I felt it. Different pain then the weeks before. I can't remember what specific poses or actions per se.. except I remember dragging my leg from 3 legged dog to between my hands up front (ie to get to warrior poses) hurt my back. I felt a bit of a pinch during full wheels (I must admit I do too much of those for way too long but I like them and they are very meditative for me and often help my back feel stretched out and spaced, I do know I do them correctly and my back is spaced correctly as per teachers) and we tried grasshopper .... something that seems like a lot of strain on my lower back. I think I was the only one to get both legs up at all but I couldn't hold the pose whatsoever. I felt pinching pain momentarily sporadically here and there during class but then would not feel it one moment later.

The next morning.. pain.. a lot of it. Way different than the weeks before (when the chiropractor said it was sciatic nerve related). I went back to my chiropractor again for yet more money spent.. I thought I'd go right before my first classes and he'd just adjust and fix it and I'd be fine and carry on with my 3 classes that day. I saw his partner who tried adjusting me and told me absolutely no yoga (well he suggested it .. he said I can do what I want but I can cause myself massive damage long term if I hurt myself severely worse when the nerve is inflamed or irritated) for several days. I was tempted to go right to my classes but realized I better listen and I knew I was in too much pain anyway to get through class. He said it must be a nerve inflamed and I am way out of alignment. Adjusting me didn't work so well.. he only got one crack instead of the 3 or 4 or more that normally happen. He said if I still hurt the next day, I should come back. I went back and saw the Dr I normally saw who said he can't really tell whats wrong without an Xray.. I can't afford that nor the surgery or whatever expensive thing he may suggest to fix what he thinks is wrong. He too tried adjusting me and got one good crack. I told him my left hamstring right right above the knee on the inside is tight and like almost pulled but it is directly related to my back and comes and goes relating to the back pain. He said I should stretch it out. I asked him if I should go to yoga, he said try one class and see how it goes.

I went to one long class at night and it was bad, really bad. I started out semi ok but it got worse and worse over class. From early cat/cow, some of the cows caused that jolting pain. I couldn't do anything on the left side (even though the pain is in the right side of my back).. anything over the left direction is like locked.. triangle, extended side angle, artichandrasana (however you call it - half moon)- those things on the right are ok. I started out being able to do 3 legged dog and bringing my leg to between my hands.. after a few minutes I could barely lift my right leg up and coudln't carry it through but had to drag it on the ground. The left side like that was ok though!!! (again pain is on the right side of my back). Foward bending.. at first when I tried to go down, pain and it's like there is a lock or a rubber band preventing me from bending over and my knees had to be bent a lot but then once I got past that first jolt of pain, I could go so far down with my legs striahgt but I felt pulling/tension in my lower back.
We did crow pose into a tripod headstand and I knew that was a mistake but wanted to do freaking something.. I got up but flipped over because the pain jolted me and I couldn't get my back to be straight or keep the balance.
By the end of class, I was defeated and was crying and coudln't do any of the simple forward bending stretches and downward dog was hurting me. My teacher who knows me very well (one who thinks my practice is a bit much) came over and asked me if I was ok and told me to lie on my back the rest of class. I just cried feeling like I will never just be able to do!! I'm 36 by the way and I feel like I should be able to be physically active.. people dance 12 hours a day or work in construction or train for marathons. Why can't I just do my yoga in peace!????????????

I haven't been to yoga since That was Friday night.

I tried one acupuncturist last week and that didn't help much.. the acupuncture person who spoke little english said, "No yoga, yoga very bad." The only reason I am trying this acupuncture is to get back to yoga.

I don't know if I want to blow more money on the chiropractor... I have very limited funds/income.

I want to describe the pain exactly: It is mostly right behind and above the pelvic bone in the lower right back. When I am just sitting or laying or walking or standing or whatever, I don't even feel any pain. But, sudden movements of varying kinds cause this jolting, electrifying, intense, sharp pain that if it were in my abdomen, I'd be doubled over. It feels almost like an electric jolt that stuns me as though something is touching something it shouldn't (like the game 'operation'). Often, if I reach over to the left, it causes it as does sudden abrubpt stops on the train or bus and sometimes it happens suddenly while walking or when I sit and slouch just a little. It also happens almost every time I roll over in my sleep. I can let the pain happen and then can resume that same position or action fine. I can not reach down to the left like attempting triangle or simply reaching for something on the floor. The pain also goes to the middle lumbar 3 (I know this from the acupuncture person) region on the right of the spine, whereas if you press there, it is very sore and tender and in one or two spots can make me jump in shocking pain.

Today, the pain was a tiny drop less agonizing when it happens and it seems to happen a little bit less often. So, I felt promise that maybe it will heal soon.

I went to another acupuncturist today.. online reviews said he is a miracle worker. He saw me only for about 30 seconds and said it's not sciatica, it is the muscle in the lumbar 3 being cramped and spasming. I tried to tell him also the pain behind the pelvis bone but he ignored it and just focused on the other place. He used much bigger needles than the first acupuncturist(I think only 3 of them, though) that I definitely more than felt and hooked up an electric device to them .. I said I was scared of that so he put it on very low. I felt electric twitching in through the needles EWW. If it helps, though, I'll suffer through it. That is how badly I want to get back to my yoga!!! My mouth was so dry afterwards which he warned me of and said that means it is working. But, I feel he didn't understand that most of the pain is behind the pelvis and the sudden jolts of pain I feel and when. He talked to me so fast for so short and his English too was a bit limited. Then of course the receptionist/nurses said I need another treatment within one week and 1 to 3 after that. All of these people want my money and if it doesn't work, then I am the one who is f*cked out of it and no one cares! This was $80 and then it is $70 a visit. So, they want me to pay $150 in a week and well I don't even know if it will work. My chiropractor is $75 for like 10 minutes.. if I am still in pain and go back, it's still $75 more. He said he'd work with me.. that meant that I plop down 10 visits' worth and he'll take off 10%. I am completely on my own financially. If I can't pay my rent, I am homeless literally (I slept in my car for a week last year before I had enough money to find an apartment share). I have not one person to turn to for help or anyone to rely on or go to. I have no insurance and while there are people who make way less than me, ( I take in about $600 to $650 sometimes 700 a week on average.. I work in a restaurant) but shelling out hundreds of dollars and still being in pain with everyone wanting me to come many times .. I can't do that.
After the acupuncturist, I think maybe the pain in the lumbar area is actually a drop less but there is nothing less about the jolting semi frequent pain lower and after I coughed a bunch of times, as better as it was today .. it is as bad as yesterday so a little worse than earlier today! So, now, I feel it isn't getting better.

Anyone have any ideas!? Yoga is the only thing I want to do now and the only thing that makes me happy, centered, and feeling well (well except for all the back problems). Someone help me!

PS Sorry it is sooo long. Trying to give a full picture.
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nucleareggset
Posted 2008-09-17 2:52 AM (#110871 - in reply to #110869)
Subject: RE: Lower Back - HELP(warning LONG


with pain that bad, you need to listen to your body. a strongly physical practice doesn't sound like it's right for you right now - restorative, yoga nidra, meditation... sure, but a strong physical practice isn't honoring your body or respecting your limits. obsessing about asana classes (and your post strikes me as something reaching compulsive about doing yoga), and taking 3 every day, is definitely not going to help resolve something that's overworked. you *can* significantly change your practice and find amazing benefit, though it might look a lot different than you expected.

on the physical side, please do get the x-rays and get it checked out. if you have a compressed disc, or something along those lines, you need to treat it properly *now*, so it doesn't become a chronic problem. I realize money may be an issue, but health is more important than a lot of things, and many doctors will work out a sliding scale or payment plan. we certainly can't diagnose anything here - most of us aren't doctors, and it's the internet. but some things that you do in yoga most certainly can be making the back problem worse. (can help, can make it worse.) you need to find out what's going on, and while you don't have to quit your practice, it may look significantly different from what it is now.

(I realize that this may be not at all what you want to hear. A few years ago, at the age of 25, my knees were bothering me after running. I put off seeing the dr. for a while, and when I could hardly walk half a mile, I went in to see an ortho. He dx'ed me, and said that I couldn't run any more, should do surgery, and would probably have knee replacements by the time I was 50. I cried my whole drive home; mostly from not being able to do what I usually did. But I looked for second opinions; I did nine months of physical therapy; I became much more attentive to how I was using my knee (how much, how mechanically, how I treated it afterwards), and I've avoided both surgery and can do the vast majority of things I want to.

Trying to compare yourself to others isn't really useful, because you have no body else's body but your own.)
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Posted 2008-09-17 5:55 PM (#110895 - in reply to #110869)
Subject: RE: Lower Back - HELP(warning


Hello Fyre,

Please allow me to respond to you within a Yoga context. And by Yoga I am referring to the vast body of wisdom of which asana is only a sliver.

When the student is out of balance it is quite possible to completely miss the concept of moderation. That lack of moderation may manifest itself in a very intense practice (with not enough rest), a very toxic diet, a very lopsided lifestyle, or a very long post. Two of these directly correlate to your situation. The others may or may not.

In order to find balance of life (not the balance of Vrksasana pe rse) a yogi cultivates the sense of relationship with the Self through awareness. In that way the student can be present, make decisions they can live with, and honor the dialogue that the body begs for that is so often ignored until it will not be ignored any longer. The body whispers first, calls second, and yells when it continues to be ignored.

When the student cultivates this awareness she/he has the opportunity to observe the presence of Raga (attachment) and Dvesha (aversion) in their consciousness. Hopefully this observance is followed by the fortitude to transform these conditions. In this regard clinging to a frisky asana practice is not at all different than the shoving away of experiences perceived as being "unpleasant". They are both obstacles to growth.

It seems clear from your post that you have an expectation of extrinsic remedy. That is to say something outside of you should make things better. This is a fairly common misperception in the Western yoga community. None of the things you mention are cures, just as Yoga is not a cure. Yoga (or acupuncture, chiropractic, etcetera) are modalities that support your body's own immune function. These things can be of great help and are often necessary but they merely allow us to do the work ourselves or to manage what we've taken on through choice or inherited though genetics.

From the perspective of yoga therapy (in the tradition in which I am trained and study) the approach would be three-pronged: asana/pranayama, nutrition/lifestyle, and emotional work through meditation. I would be remiss if I did not mention that lower back issues often represent issues with money or sexuality. This may not be so for every person but it is surely worth looking inside one's self to make such a determination.

I think it is inappropriate for a yoga teacher, especially one you are not working with in person, to state you have "this or that". Number one is that most are not qualified to make such a claim (especially without assessment) and the second is that what is said often plants thoughts in the student's mind. I believe what you have can be processed (but not ignored). If you cannot find a good yoga therapist AND manifest the money to pay them what they are worth then consider a DVD on the low back from Gary Kraftsow of the American Viniyoga Institute - and of course make significant changes to your life please.



Edited by purnayoga 2008-09-17 5:59 PM
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tourist
Posted 2008-09-17 6:46 PM (#110897 - in reply to #110869)
Subject: RE: Lower Back - HELP(warning LONG



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
50002000100010010010010025
I am a bit baffled by all of this and will try to reply in the kind and comforting manner I've been told I have. TRY. It seems to me that you have taken 150 or 160 yoga classes yet have learned very little about yoga. The fact is that you will indeed stop taking so many classes each week, either because you listen to purna and those teachers who don't understand you and slow down, heal your back and listen to your body or you will injure yourself beyond the point of rehabilitation. You do have some choice in this. Choose wisely.
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OrangeMat
Posted 2008-09-18 11:46 AM (#110925 - in reply to #110869)
Subject: RE: Lower Back - HELP(warning LONG


Please consider restorative yoga as your practice of choice until your body heals sufficiently (and guided by a trained teacher, of course). Savasana as an asana is just as valid as trikonasana or any other pose. Just because it doesn't require the same sort of "engagement" doesn't mean you aren't "doing yoga".

For many of us, letting go is much harder than holding on. And for some of us, it's even harder still.

I wish you ease and balance. Good luck.
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fyre
Posted 2008-09-23 1:45 PM (#111013 - in reply to #110869)
Subject: RE: Lower Back - HELP(warning LONG


Well, I found a different really good, nice chiropractor who spent a lot of time diagnosing me and asking a lot of questions about everything that could possibly relate to my back- he believes it is facet joint syndrome which is a swelling of a joint or joints in the lower spine and that causes the muscles around it to overcompensate and cramp. It is something that heals within a few weeks usually and adjustments/treatments help it faster. He also advised me to take a good multivitamin and to drink smart water or something like it to keep my electrolytes in balance (one of the things that can affect facet joint syndrome). He is almost certain it is not nerve related or something like a disk, which I am so glad! The facet joint thing can be caused by one of several things: one really fast backbend action (ie peacefuls), lifting something wrong, diet, electrolyte imbalance, it can happen in one's sleep.

It is progressively and slowly getting better.. I feel less pain than last week and it is not nearly as intense when it happens. I still can not bend over to the left (like a side stretch/bend or attempting triangle in that direction) but I think I'll get my range of motion back slowly.

I *will* ease back into classes slowly when I do return..

I have thought about some of the replies here... some of the observations and offerings are quite wise... Thank you for them

Namaste~
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tourist
Posted 2008-09-24 6:37 PM (#111021 - in reply to #111013)
Subject: RE: Lower Back - HELP(warning LONG



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
50002000100010010010010025
fyre - I am glad you have found a practitioner who can help you! Please keep us updated on how you are doing.
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idealstretch
Posted 2008-12-08 5:52 PM (#112294 - in reply to #110869)
Subject: Re: Lower Back - HELP(warning LONG


Make sure your chiropractor gives you some core strengthening exercises. Most low back issues stem from weak lower back and core muscles. Yoga is great at strengthening the core but it's not specific enough. By improving your core strength you will decrease your chance for recurrence of this and other conditions. All you will have to worry about then is your yoga!

http://www.idealstretch.com
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Posted 2008-12-09 1:07 PM (#112299 - in reply to #110869)
Subject: Re: Lower Back - HELP(warning LONG


from the iyengar yoga institute of san francisco website:

Exercise as it is usually done only reinforces misalignment. If we don’t know how to exercise properly, we tend to stretch from our more flexible areas and rely on our better-developed muscles for strength. Iyengar Yoga encourages weak parts to strengthen and stiff areas to stretch, thus awakening and re-aligning the whole body. As the body moves into better alignment, less muscular work is required and relaxation increases naturally.

i imagine you had a fairly strong pre-existing level of fitness, and were thus able to muscle your way into inverted asanas, as well as keep up with 15 classes a week.
however, a high level of pre-existing fitness does not equal strong alignment.
it probably predisposes you (and me) to more imbalance.
...
if you eat to much, you get a stomach ache
if you do too much yoga, you will face consequences.
15 classes a week may not be too much for some people, but until you learn to do the poses properly it will be too much for you.
find an alignment based instructor and learn to look inside of your poses as opposed to the external appearance or immediate rush of sensation.
...
do it right or don't do it at all
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fyre
Posted 2008-12-24 9:07 PM (#112508 - in reply to #112299)
Subject: Re: Lower Back - HELP(warning LONG


Hi all. Peace! Hope everyone is having a great holiday!

Since I saw a few recent posts here, I thought I'd follow up.

Dhanurasana - I never did exercise in any form before yoga since I was in elementary school (I was a swimmer only until high school) - I am 36 and was previously incredibly lazy lazy lazy my whole adult life. I tried joining a gym not once but twice in the past 15 years, but went for just a few weeks and lost interest quickly and then made nice monthly donations. Yoga is the first thing of an exercise/moving nature that grabbed my interest and has more than held it. Part of that is the melding of the spiritual aspects with the physical practice.. I love ALL of yoga.. from the first OM to the last.

My back thank God has been great (knock on wood). I see my chiropractor every couple of weeks for maintenance- slight adjustments in case something is a bit out of alignment. My back has held up through my 15-16 classes a week. I take a long hot bath at least once a week, take a really good multivatimin and drink coconut water between classes for electrolytes. I make sure to do a bunch of cat/cows and seated spinal twists and other back stretches at the beginning of my days before classes.

At the very beggining - the first couple of months of my clases, I caused a lot of strain to my leg muscles forcing them to break open and forcing my body into flexibility. I know -wholly not the yogic way, but that is what I did. My leg muscles were highly unused to what I was making them do, thus I was in crippling soreness daily and for those few months, my legs were extremely sore constantly and sometimes I pulled my leg muscles. I think I just did the same thing to my back. My back muscles weren't strong enough at that point to handle what I was forcing on my body. Additionally, I never took any basics classes, but jumped right into hardcore vinyassa classes. One teacher of mine rebuked me after a month and a half and told me that she watches me and I just jump into every pose and bind without even breathing or caring about alignment or feeling any of it. It was true.. I had this misnotion in my head that if I wasn't in pain or severe discomfort I wasn't working hard enough and if I didn't do every pose the hardest way possible (with the bind or the like) than I was 'cheating'. She was like "That is not yoga. That's the opposite of yoga!" She also told me a lot of my alignments are not right and I should take basics classes to supplement my practice. None of the basics classes fit into my schedule at my studio, but I worked a lot on listening in classes to what my aligments should be and a month or so later, she told me I was looking pretty strong and my alignments were pretty a-ok. Things just clicked in my brain and it all kind of came together. I finally got my body to understand what my brain was hearing and do it........ while I kept hearing the same things class after class, day after day, my body did not understand what the brain was hearing: Finally "roll your right ribs under your left as though they are chasing them" or "navel to the spine, shoulders away from the ears" made sense and happened. I think that more correct alignments made a lot of difference in my back as well as gaining strength all around.
Most of my teachers have told me my alignments are really good since - I now care more about alignment in triangle (my favorite pose - I love the long straight line of energy from top to bottom!!!) than getting whatever arm balance d'jour.
I've learned within my own heart and mind to approach my practice differently.. instead of force and pain, I feel everything and savor the movements and breath. My practice is entirely different than 3 months ago. It's constantly evolving and changing... I am continuously feeling and experiencing it all differently.

Being out of yoga for those 2 1/2 to 3 weeks did have a good result... when I returned to classes, I was just so grateful to not have a long term severe disc like problem and was so grateful to just be able to do yoga again, that I learned to really enjoy every moment and movement rather than focus on forcing and pushing and getting to this or that right away. I feel a much greater peace and serenity in it all....

This week was my six month anniversary from my first class and I can't believe how different it all is for me now and where I've gotten my body to.

I have worked and continue to work SO hard tenaciously - I go to my class religiously but more importantly I trully love them in completion. I wake up excited and anxious to go to classes every day. That is the truth.
Perhaps one day, things will change and I'll take a more common number of classes, but for right now, at this moment, I am truly HAPPY with who and what I take and the way things are exactly.

My body is barely the same body it was when I started. Things continue to progress... while I work hard, I stopped punishing myself and my body and violently forcing my body into everything. I "let go" of a lot of that mindset and the constant pressure I put on myself in the beginning to get to this or that right now. I can't totally ditch the part of my brain that wants to make my body strong and flexible and does want to to achieve to a degree... but it is a lot calmer and I have found so much else to focus on and love in yoga.

Now, things happen from the process....I am maybe two inches away from hanumanasana. My legs opened in compass. After SOOO much hard work, my chatarungas are finally freaking right!!! I thought I'd never get enough strength in my arms... I went to a class outside my studio and we worked specifically on chatarungas and the teacher commented that mine are pretty good. I can handstand for 20 to 30 seconds sometimes, come up to tripod headstand from prasarita, I did grasshopper (something I thought I'd never ever ever in my life get) , got side crow, kudinyasa, firefly etc. I can fall back into dhanurasana with no wall or help and fall from tripod to chaturanga. I still can't do flying crow and my forearm stand is still ehhh.. totally inconsistent and I flip over often, and I can not for the life of me jump back from crow to chatarunga. I know yoga is not supposed to be about achievement or accomplishments, but for my own head I feel like I have come so far and am happy with what I have gotten my body to do. I often feel in class like I can not believe it is MY body doing these things.
By the way, I have no ego.. I am always, always in the back of the class feeling sometimes like I look spazy.. and I know there are a million people just in the city I am, never mind the country or the world, who are way more advanced than I am and I KNOW there are things I will never be able to do. But this is the first thing I have ever set my mind to and followed through with and have done pretty decently at.

Again, I hope everyone has a wonderful holiday..

Peace and namaste!



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