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| http://www.hotyogamasterclass.com/
Is this even legal?! |
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| Whoa.... At first, my thought was - Do you mean "is it legal to start a website with that cheesy of a video?" Then I kept reading. What the ?!?! |
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| Yeah, no. This is SCREAMING "copyright violation" to me.
DO NOT LIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was looking at this the other day and I hate hate hate it. Maybe 1% of the info is useful, 75% is identical to the stuff that's already in the dialogue and books, and the rest is INCORRECT. And it's being polished up all shiny and pawned off as something new. I read it for a while and it made me so freaking mad. It's such a blatant rip-off. Some people have NO SHAME. I hate the sensationalism of it... "OMG did you YOU that many classes are taught to a SCRIPT?!" No, REALLY, lady?? I really want to see the people behind this get sued. They are so far out of line. I hope someone's shown it to Bikram... |
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| Crazy. Blatant thiefery. I actually watched the little clips of some of the postures... And funny enough, the "script" is being used. |
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| She's clearly an opportunist piggybacking on Bikram's success. However, she might also genuinely believe that she's filling a need/gap via additional instruction. I'm not interested in what she's selling, but I have no problem with it. |
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Veteran
Posts: 243
 
| It's really pretty funny- she has a long clip showing... herself opening the package that came in the mail! yay! Also I like how being a dentist gave her exceptional insight into the fundamentals of anatomy. |
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| yoga-addict - Yeah, you are totally right. Especially about the dentist bit. I thought that was amazing.
But what pisses me off the most is that when I look through the forums and photos, there is SO much "information" that is just WRONG! She has a video of herself doing triangle that's kind of a train wreck. And people are buying it, cause she has a sweet face and a slick sales pitch. Which kind of undermines... everything. I don't care what her intentions are... you know what the road to hell is paved with, don't you? |
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Veteran
Posts: 243
| I wouldn't worry about it- I saw it a week or so ago and I have seen her website before and I clicked away after 10 seconds-totally uninterested. The sales pitch isn't that slick. I'm not sure it's really a rip-off- she doesn't claim the series as her own, just offers to give more detailed info. I'll have to take a look at the video on triangle. |
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| I think her heart's in the right place. The sales pitch and site aren't slick; the whole thing has an almost endearing homegrown quality to it. I have actually spent a lot of time around her site and her "hot yoga forum", and I can say with a few exceptions that she gives good and practical advice along the standard Bikram party line. Still I'm not all that interested in her product.
Shes does seem to have an ever-so-slight chip on her shoulder regarding some contentious subjects. There are a few things she insists are taught incorrectly in Bikram. For instance, in Standing Separate Leg Intense Stretching Pose she admonishes against locking the knees before the back is perfectly straight. Stuff like that. Shouldn't questions like this be open to discussion?
If she didn't have a slightly different interpretation she'd have no ground to build a business like this on. It really seems like she stays within legal boundaries, so why hate? She's just tryin' to hustle. |
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| I love Gabrielle and her common sense approach. Also, being a dentist should give her deep insight to anatomy. A typical dental school cirriculuum includes: curriculum introduces the concepts of human biology as they pertain to medicine in general and dental medicine in particular to include gross anatomy (osteology, myology, angiology, and neurology and radiological anatomy.
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Regular
Posts: 73
Location: The City of Brotherly Love | Well I very much agree with some of her contentions with certain aspects of the series on a case by case basis. Still, I wonder how she did get away with selling the books and DVDs. Maybe Bikram doesn't have as much control as people think? Very curious indeed... |
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Veteran
Posts: 243
| Maybe the franchise police, supported by the millions of dollars now flooding into the empire, will have time to knock on her door... |
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| wait? I don't see what's wrong with this. These yoga poses have been around for ages. I take NON Bikram's hot yoga classes often myself. The copyright only covers the series of poses in the Bikrams sequence if I'm not mistaken. Again, I don't really see anything wrong here. what am i missing? |
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| Look at the poster of poses on her site. It is the Bikram series. It looks to me like she is selling a non-approved guide or supplement to the Bikram series. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I give non-approved advice and observations on the poses all the time.
Here's the thing that strikes me as funny about this sort of thing. The most likely way for this sort of thing to hit Bikram's radar is because it becomes popular through word of mouth. That would most likely happen only if its any good. Thus, with things like this, the good stuff ends up getting suppressed, and the bad stuff stays on the market. (This happens all the time with copyright material, and its pretty stupid, in my opinion.) |
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| Duffy... I mean... I give advice all the time TOO, but (1) I'm not claiming that I know BETTER than Bikram or the dialogue, or contradicting the stuff that Bikram teaches (which she does all over the place), and (2) I'm not charging "ONLY 200 dollars or 30 bucks a month" or whatever, for people to hear my ideas on the series. I guess from a legal point of view that doesn't make much of a difference, but to ME it makes all the difference.
If I were ever to publish a Bikram supplement (for some mad reason, this would never happen in a million years, but just imagine...), I would want to consult with all the experts, if not with Bikram than with some of his senior teachers, and get lots of input to make sure that everything was right. Gabrielle may mean well, but she's clearly speaking purely from her own ideas and interpretations, and boy does it show. Some of her advice and pictures are good, but some are really, really flawed. |
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| thedancingj - 2009-08-18 2:12 PM
Some of her advice and pictures are good, but some are really, really flawed.
and the dialogue is so great?
in the context of only Bikram yoga, maybe it is the authority.
However, there are other ideas.
In those 26 postures (and two breathing exercises) there is endless possibility for variation and learning.
But given the restraints of having to squeeze them all into a ninety minute class and work from a script, all possibilities of movement and action will not be explored.
To say that the dialogue is the only valid way for those poses to be taught is a gross underestimate of the potential of asana.
I have received contradictory instructions in asanas before (including asanas that are practiced in the Bikram series)
one class one action is appropriate and another class another action is appropriate.
They were both correct in their own context to give a better understanding of the pose.
limiting yourself to only one way of performing asanas is a gross mistake. |
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| Yeah, I think the dialogue IS actually that great.  And I can see the endless possibility for variation and learning within its structure. I have never once found it limiting. I still learn new things from it all the time. I learned something brand new just last night, and it was from the dialogue. But I guess that's a whole other discussion. I am a Bikram purist, born and bred, and a lot of you guys are not, so this is a pretty predictable difference in opinion.
I've never said that verbatim dialogue is the only way to teach a class... but it is a REALLY great place to start from if you're talking about the specific Bikram series.
For example: Of course there are like 30 different variations of cobra that are all great in their own place, but in the Bikram series, it is a good idea to do Bikram's version, since it works in synergy with all the other postures in the series, and the instructions for cobra are laid out very, very specifically by the dialogue: the placement of the hands, the distribution of the weight, the height of the lift, etc. etc. If you ignore all of that, then you sell yourself short by loosing the benefit of the posture.
limiting yourself to only one way of performing asanas is a gross mistake.
See, this SOUNDS good, but in the case of the Bikram series, I've got to disagree. I think one of the fundamental assumptions of the Bikram series is that we CAN find an OPTIMAL way of performing the asanas to maximize health. You could say that we "limit" ourselves to only doing things the best way! That's why everything in Bikram's class is done the same way every time. And of course, even this "one right way" still can and DOES evolve as we get more and better information. But that is the central concept, you know? |
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| and this is why it is always against my better judgement to argue with the bikram yoga people |
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| Awww, dude... don't be like that... I can't say my opinion? (About Bikram yoga? On the Bikram yoga page?) It' not like I'm making personal attacks here or anything... I just gave my position, and told you the logical reasons for it! I think that's the same thing that you did, right? But now you are just calling me "You People" and cutting off the conversation! That is less fun... what a bummer... |
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| The only issue I personally would have over the "Hot Yoga Doctor" is that she clearly is teaching Bikram sequence. Good intentions or not. All she really would need to do it edit her sequence a bit. Add a posture that she like better for the series, take one out that doesn't make sense to her.
Then, she is teaching her own version of hot yoga. It shows that she has analyzed the series, made her own conclusion and created something that was reflectant of her own knowledge. To anyone who really understand the advanced series and knows the body well should be able to spot the holes in Bikram yoga and be able to come up with their own series.
I call bullshit. Good intentions or not. |
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| dancingj:
It's OK to disagree with Bikram, and it makes no legal difference whether someone charges money or not. (It makes a difference when calculating damages, but is not relevant to whether there's a copyright violation.) The fact that she disagrees with Bikram is a pretty good signal that she's wrong about lots of things. (I'm not saying that Bikram is right about everything, but I take his word over hers without knowing any more.) From that, I conclude that her product probably isn't very good, won't sell all that much, and as a result will be allowed to survive.
If she really had a better approach to Bikram yoga, one that made the series work better for lots and lots of people, then the chances are that people would start flocking to her product. Then, Bikram would have a real incentive to shut her down, because she would be providing real competition. That's my point about what's so weird about the law.
And I may very well agree with yogabrian: it's likely that she's just teaching the Bikram series. But I'm not sure that the workaround is as easy as he suggests. Simply changing one or two poses might not be enough. If the person is basing the new series on the Bikram series, he may very well still be copying. A copy does not have to be exact to be a copyright violation. And I don't know where the line would be here. My guess is that it would end up being a factual determination in a lawsuit, if the issue ever came up. |
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| Duffy, if that's the case the Bikram copied his teacher. It's like blues song. The rhythm may be the same, the but song can VERY different.
He owns the specific choreography not the poses. Change the choreography in way and it's not Bikram Yoga anymore. However, one should NOT call it Bikram yoga if that's the case. |
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| thedancingj - 2009-08-18 4:45 PM
You could say that we "limit" ourselves to only doing things the best way! That's why everything in Bikram's class is done the same way every time. And of course, even this "one right way" still can and DOES evolve as we get more and better information. But that is the central concept, you know?
what could i possibly say to this?
i felt the same way when i was doing bikram yoga, and then my whole body pretty much crapped out.
certainly this is not everyone's experience with bikram yoga, but uh, yeah
it was mine.
and i thought it was the best.
then i got different instructions, and those were the best.
and now the idea of best doesn't even really apply.
...
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| There's a serious lack of understanding of copyright law in this discussion. Copyright law requires any 'new work' to be significantly different from any existing copyrighted work so as to be considered unique. Changing one or two postures is not enough. However, the Yoga Doctor is not selling Bikram Yoga instruction. She is in no way infringing on Bikram's copyright just as the "Hot Yoga" book by Marilyn Barnett is not in spite of the fact that it describes in great detail the exact Bikram Yoga 26 posture sequence. The difference is that they are selling their own personal ideas about how to best practice Bikram Yoga and not actually claiming it as their own creation.
On the other hand, I may be talking out of my ass just like the rest of you... |
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| I don't think he really will go around sueing people for copyright infringement. It would be VERY expensive to sue everyone or even 10 people.
He couldn't win the last time this happened and the judge order the parties to settle. The litigants where full fledged Bikram teachers. No where changing their series at the time and the case still did not get a ruling on it.
The power he has here is a lot of money and fear. |
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