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Member
Posts: 8
| I visited the osteopath yesterday for some chronic pains in my spine and shoulders. He told me that my whole spine was in an unstable condition. He fixed some of my vertebrae. But still need more sessions to fix everything. The doctor told me that normally the spine was weak for a woman already in 30's and have kid.
I am a long time yoga practitioner and doing Mysore regularly. Now I already finished the primary series and am working on Kapotasana. Did all the back bends cause my problem?  |
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| BC--no way of telling but that's a good question to ask the doc working on you. |
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Veteran
Posts: 113
Location: Uppsala, Sweden | If you have a good experienced yoga teacher who is aware of what usually causes problems in the spine and shoulders, and of ways to minimize or avoid such pains, that is who you should talk with as well... and there is really no way to pinpoint what asanas you might be doing less well, or that could be the cause of your problems, without the proper knowledge and experience, and watching you practice.
You could actually hurt your spine in almost any asana (that involves bending forward or backward, or twisting the spine), and you could hurt your shoulders when doing the vinyasa (jumping back and forward), or when lowering into chaturanga dandasana, or in any asana where your arms bear weight... so the problems could have started in Primary Series (or even bad alignment already in Surya Namaskara), and now those problems become unbearable pain in Second Series.
If you don't have a great teacher, as I have, you could slow down your practice and pay more attention to what is happening in your spine and shoulders when practicing. Or try adding asana (day by day) to what you know to be a safe problem-free practice for you. This means a more difficult detective job on your own...
Other than that, I would suggest that you read chapter 6 (Anatomy: Understanding the Capabilities and Limitations of Your Body), p. 59-77, of "Ashtanga Yoga: The Intermediate Series - Mythology, Anatomy, and Practice" (2009), by Gregor Maehle.
"Knowledge of the spine's various movements and restrictions is important in backbending, and it is also applicable in forward bending and twisting. Let's look first at the thoracic spine, which is inherently less flexible in extention than the cervical and lumbar spines.
Anatomically, the vertebrae of the thoracic spine are wedge shaped, thereby forming its kyphotic (bent forward) curve. Here, long, overlapping spinous processes add stability and prevent extensive backward arching. Additionally, the almost vertical plane of the facet joints is specifically designed for rotation versus extension, as this facilitates the varied activities we perform with our upper limbs. Finally, the attachment of the ribs to the vertebral bodies and the sternum form a stable cage to house our most vital organs.
Since the armor of the heart prevents the thoracic spine from arching, you need to consciously distribute part of your effort in backbending toward your rib cage and thoracic spine. If you do not make a conscious effort to do so, your backbend will translate into your lumbar spine, which is weak and unsupported and thus prone to overstretching.
The thoracic spine is especially designed for flexing forward and for actions that require twisting" -- (The Spine, p. 62-)
"The shoulder joint carries most of the workload during arm balances. Arm balances are very important and beneficial; unfortunately, however, long-term Ashtanga practitioners frequently give up performing them due to shoulder problems. These problems can be avoided or if incurred already, the shoulders can be rehabilitated through proper anatomical understanding and ensuing action." -- (p. 71-)
"Most shoulder injuries are caused by performing rapid movements under load. Tears of the glenoid labrum, the cartilage lining of the glenoid fossa, are often produced in the attempt to catch a heavy falling object. This object can be your own body if, for example, you fall off a chair, a ladder, or a bicycle and try to brace your fall with your arm.
Many people have decreased space between the humerus and the acromiocoracoid ceiling. This condition increases the likelihood of the joint becoming inflamed due to constant friction from exercise or repetitive movement" -- (Shoulder Injuries, p. 74-) |
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Member
Posts: 8
| Thank you Bruce and Iraputra. My mysore teacher is a certified teacher from Patabhi Jois. But he seldom adjusts and corrects me. Mostly he only help me with the one after Urdhava Dhanurasana and drop back, I cross my arms and go down, then try to grab my heels. Now I stopped my Mysore practise during the treatment. I might need more attention after I go back to mysore practise. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
 
| Also its good to note tat Mysore style yoga is very much stretching in and out of postures which wont do much to improve your organization and posture. Just look at the Cheetah-faster than any human. He never stretches before hunting an animal, nor does he do any core stability exercises or go to the gym (or everyone would run out of the gym) to strengthen back muscles. He also doesnt suffer from back problems and require an osteopath. Whereas I have known many who do gym,ashtanga,bikram,Iyengar,Sivananda, core stability,tai chi, pilates and have been to see osteopaths on several occaisons. Im not saying set a cheetah on your yoga teacher, but be aware that much yoga will do nothing to prevent back issues and even aggravate issues, no matter what unscientific spiritual nonsense some yoga teachers spout out. Look at Iyengars classic 'light on yoga' book. Has index of postures for back problems and other issues. This is like a doctor prescribing the same drugs to everyone for the same condition, without taking into account the whole person and that everyone is different. |
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Member
Posts: 8
| Thank you vibes. I should consider about my yoga practise.
I went to the doctor again. My spine condition was improved a lot after last 2 sessions. But he found that there are lots of scar tissues in my lumbar area. They cause the pinched nerve towards my sciatic. He told me that I pushed myself too much to achieve the postures while my ligaments and muscles were still weak. He suggested me to eat some meat and fish. But it is the last thing I would do. So he said the Glucosamine & Chondroitin may help with my condition. I will try it. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
  
| Not sure we have any evidence that big cats don't get back problems. They definitely stretch.
BKS Iyengar regularly emphasizes that the practices listed in LOY are useful mainly in the sense that there was no information on such topics available at all at the time it was written. He also insists that a "stock" practice of any kind is no substitute for working with an experienced and educated teacher. |
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| tourist,
You are absolutely right. Cheetahs have frequent back injuries due to the length of their backs and the twisting that they do in hunting. These injuries often lead to hip and hind leg paralysis and death. They also stretch frequently. All cats stretch many times every day so that they can constantly remain ready to chase prey or escape with less chance of injury.
Cats do not injure themselves from stretching, as they stretch to relieve tension and increase circulation, not to do some fancy pose that they saw in a class or book.
jimg
Edited by jimg 2010-04-14 2:59 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| jim - you are a fountain of information! |
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Veteran
Posts: 113
Location: Uppsala, Sweden | There can be many reasons for spinal instability, degenerating disks, and back pain. Muscular instability, lack of core strength, too much/little flexibility (or an imbalance between flexibility and strength), overweight, over-straining the back, unhealthy vibrations, viral/inflammatory disease, too much wear and tear from work or bad posture, too much inactivity and sedentary life-style, and so on.
Usually the intervertebral disks don't begin to bulge and rupture over night. And their elasticity and strength do of course correspond to one's age, history and general fitness. There is a lot one can do to better the situation, and many treatment options, which also of course depends on how severe the doctor deems the condition to be. Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga can at some point in this process be either a help, if done properly and adapted to the needs of the patient, or something that actually could worsen the situation (as could any other style of yoga).
And it takes a long time to heal a broken back. Much patience, positive attitude, healthy life-style, and daily rehab exercises goes a long way — to avoid things like leg paralysis and premature death of beautiful cats. |
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Member
Posts: 8
| How you guys think about the closing sequence from Sarvangasana to Uttana Padasana? I am trying to find the postures cause the problems of my cervical vertebrae. David Swenson told me to lift the seven cervical away from the floor so only the back head and the shoulder blades on the floor. But the teacher in the Iyengar class ask me to keep the chin lock so my neck on the floor. I feel chin lock one hurts me so I keep the back of my neck off the mat now. But, is the neck more vulnerable in the Sarvangasana and Matsyasana? |
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| The natural curve of the back of your neck should always be maintained. Putting weight or stress on the back of your neck or touching the back of your neck to the floor are sure ways to injure your neck.
If you force your neck too far into flexion in Shoulderstand, you may sprain a muscle. A more serious consequence, which is harder to detect until the damage is done, is that you might stretch your ligamentum nuchae beyond its elastic limits. This often happens gradually over time until the ligament loses its ability to restore the normal cervical curve after flexion. Your neck would then lose its curve and become flat, not just after practicing Shoulderstand, but all the time. A flat neck transfers too much weight onto the fronts of the vertebrae. This can stimulate the weight-bearing surfaces to grow extra bone to compensate, potentially creating painful bone spurs. A still more serious potential consequence of applying excessive force to the neck in Shoulderstand is a cervical disk injury. As the pose squeezes the front of the disks down, one or more of them can bulge or rupture to the rear, pressing on nearby spinal nerves. This can cause numbness, tingling, pain and/or weakness in the arms and hands. Finally, a student with osteoporosis could even suffer a neck fracture from the overzealous practice of Shoulderstand.
If you are having neck problems, my advice is to omit both Sarvangasana and Matsyasana until the problem resolves itself.
The reason to practice yoga asana is well being. Take care of yourself and you can continue that well being for your entire life. |
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too much backward bending?
