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| Hey all,
I'm sure this topic has been covered a million times, but (surprise!) I'm an ashtangi with a bad rotator cuff. I didn't get the injury from ashtanga though, I did some pretty intense training in Silat Mubai getting my Emir rank, and ended up with a variety of injuries from that.
Anyway, I had taken about a year off of anything too strenuous, and I've recently gotten into Ashtanga in a major way. I can almost do the full primary series (with a few janky poses here and there) I love it so much! The combination of poise, meditation and functional strength is awesome for me. The only thing is, it kills my shoulder. I live in Indonesia, so it seems like any medical care I get is slanted toward selling me one product or another. I went to one hospital--famous for selling you surgery--and the doc said, "arthroscopic examination, and I'll fix anything I find while I'm in there with the scope." I went for a second opinion, and showed the new doc my MRIs. He recommended a particular cortizone shot which hurt like hell, and I later found out he was basically sponsored to sell me on it.
So, without a trustworthy diagnosis, and having a well-founded fear of SE Asian operating tables, I ask the following:
I love ashtanga, and I'll be very sad if I couldn't do it anymore. That said, my shoulder kills me for hours afterward every time I do it, even if it's just the 30 min short form.
Should I ditch the vinyasas? If I do that, will it even still be ashtanga? I'll probably feel like I'm just doing an orderly hatha practice and that I'm not getting a good workout, and lose my motivation to continue.
Have any of you come back from a rotator cuff injury through ashtanga? If so, please (please!) give me some insight.
Duane |
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| Duane,
Chaturanga dandasana is a really bad pose for rotator cuff injuries. Can you continue your practice without it until your rotator cuff heals?
Jim |
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| Sure, would I just not lower into chaturanga when I do a vinyasa and just go straight to upward dog? I guess working on jumpthroughs isn't the best idea, what about training lolasana?
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Regular
Posts: 86
Location: Jacksonville, Florida | I do jumpbacks nearly all the time (between poses, not sides) and lolasana is still hell on my shoulder. That is something I personally would not do, though of course that's up to you. |
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| sandworm - 2010-04-21 6:57 PM
Sure, would I just not lower into chaturanga when I do a vinyasa and just go straight to upward dog?
Yes, unless that is also painful. |
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| The bummer is, I just tried "one-arm yoga", and it hurts even doing warrior 2, or anything in which I lift my arm over about shoulder level. Ouch!
Have any of you made it past this stage? I guess just take it easy, huh? *sigh* |
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Veteran
Posts: 113
Location: Uppsala, Sweden | Depending on what your injury is, regarding severity, location, cause and so on, there are of course different treatment options. You really should find a qualified health care practitioner in the fields of orthopaedics and physiotherapy, to work with. I can not advise you on the details of that (finding a good doctor and proper medical treatment).
But you should not practice weight-bearing postures on your shoulders/arms as long as it obviously increases inflammation/pain in the shoulder. This means no chatturanga dandasana, dog postures, or vinyasa jumps, etc.
I would highly recommend that you get a hold of Gregor Maehle's book "Ashtanga Yoga: The Intermediate Series — Mythology, Anatomy, and Practice" (2009), and read the pages 71-77, on "The Shoulder Joint" and "Shoulder Injuries".
I would not recommend that someone with a preexisting shoulder problem to go on practicing Ashtanga with all the vinyasas/jumps etc., or that you do heavy lifting, like chin-ups, to build strength — and don't think that the injury will pass by itself, with more practice.
"The correct functional position of the scapula [shoulder blade] influences the tone of all the muscles of the shoulder girdle. Just as the abdominal muscles anchor the anterior chest wall to enable the diaphragm to function optimally, so the rhomboids, the lower trapezius, and the serratus anterior muscles stabilize the scapula to enable the other prime mover muscles of the shoulder-girdle to perform their actions. The tone of the stabilizer muscles can be lost or become aberrant through trauma, imbalanced use, or poor posture. Once this has happened, the scapula is no longer anchored properly when the other shoulder-girdle muscles are engaged. This may result in inflammation or dysfunction of any of the structures of the shoulder (muscles, tendons, ligaments, or bursa). The action of the stabilizing muscles is unconscious, so one can correct dysfunction only by isolating and targeting the individual muscles through specific strengthening exercises. Attempting to strengthen the stabilizing muscles through general shoulder exercises alone will only exacerbate the problem." --
-- "Chin-ups, on the other hand, require you to suddenly lift your entire body weight without any preparation. Such intense exercises are unfortunately often performed without developing sufficient awareness. For this reason they are unsuitable for the correction of faulty motor patterns. It is more effective to exercise the rhomboids with very small weights, such as resistance bands, slowly and with maximum awareness." [Gregor Maehle (2009): Ashtanga Yoga: The Intermediate Series — Mythology, Anatomy, and Practice, p. 71-72]
So, I would rest from all things that result in pain in the shoulder, and meanwhile — when inflammation/pain subsides — try carefully doing very specific strength building exercises, shoulder stretches and slow movements with much awareness. Erich Schiffmann has a great (though a bit intense, so be careful) sequence for the shoulders, that worked fine for me: http://www.movingintostillness.com/book/asana_shoulder_stretch.html
Other exercises might be more appropriate for you.
When you get back to the Ashtanga (Yoga Chikitsa) practice, there are a few things you should be very aware of in your asana practice: Starting with breath and bandha, because these are the foundation of the asana practice in Ashtanga, and never do the hunch-back kind of alignment. Your shoulders should always be wide, with the latissimus and rhomboid muscels somewhat engaged, which makes the 'opening' of the chest easier. Also, not practicing every single day, but maybe every other day, or a shorter practice, might be a good idea — until the necessary healing of the shoulder has taken place.
"Due to the jumps in the standard sequence, it can be difficult to modify the practice with a shoulder or wrist injury. Try to engage the latissimus dorsi (side muscles) of the trunk and the abdominal muscles, rather than placing pressure on the shoulders and neck. The latter may be quite common when you are beginning, particularly pressure to the trapezius muscle. Try to keep your shoulder blades generally downwards throughout the practice, and your elbows tucked in when you jump back. Keep your back, side and front ribs spacious without over expanding them." [Matthew Sweeney (2002): Astanga Yoga As It Is, p. 20, Third edition, 2005]
And keep the humerus bone kind of laterally (externally) rotated (without overdoing it of course) in all asanas. That means, if you lift your arm in front of you, hold it with the palm of your hand facing up, and now while maintaining the arm (humerus bone) in the same postition, rotate the hand medially until the palm faces down. This is the arm alignment you really should have in postures like down dog, and basically in every other asana/vinyasa too — especially when your arms bear weight.
Edited by Iraputra 2010-04-23 12:39 PM
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| sandworm - 2010-04-23 2:43 AM
The bummer is, I just tried "one-arm yoga", and it hurts even doing warrior 2, or anything in which I lift my arm over about shoulder level. Ouch!
It sounds like you might need to modify all your poses so that you don't lift your arm over shoulder level until it heals (which might take a while). Instead of looking at this temporary setback as a problem, why not view it as an opportunity to re-evaluate your practice and further develop other aspects of your practice. These are often the situations that lead to the greatest growth and increased awareness.
Edited by jimg 2010-04-23 1:28 PM
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| Wow, what an awesome response! Thanks everyone!
I can't count on proper medical care out here, does anyone know how long I should do one-arm yoga? A month? Two?
I'm getting married next week, it's a shame to be gimpy for it. |
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| sandworm - 2010-04-23 6:21 PM
Wow, what an awesome response! Thanks everyone!
I can't count on proper medical care out here, does anyone know how long I should do one-arm yoga? A month? Two?
I'm getting married next week, it's a shame to be gimpy for it.
Congratulations! I don't think that any of the newlywed poses require you to keep your arm up.
It could take anywhere from a couple weeks to a year. Because of the relative blood flow, muscles heal pretty fast, tendons take longer and ligaments take a long time.
Gentle movement speeds recovery. If you feel pain, you are re-injuring and slowing recovery. It is often a good idea to ice after gentle practice to reduce inflammation.
Edited by jimg 2010-04-24 12:39 PM
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| Thank you very much, Jimg  My bride-to-be is a Reiki master, so hopefully she can help speed up the healing process!
My one-armed warrior 2 posture may look like a hunting dog, but at least it's working the rest of my body |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
| Its awesome for you but it kills your shoulder? Isnt your shoulder part of you? What you need to do is slooooooow right down and relax. Do everything much much slower, and gently so you can feel the border before pain and discomfort. If you keep slowing down you may even find a way to sort out this injury and not disturb it. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 574
| Its awesome for you but it kills your shoulder? Isnt your shoulder part of you? What you need to do is slooooooow right down and relax. Do everything much much slower, and gently so you can feel the border before pain and discomfort. If you keep slowing down you may even find a way to sort out this injury and not disturb it. You know yourself better than any doctor or yoga teacher. If you rush around (in yoga or in life) you dont give yourself a chance to understand whats going on). But slowly with gentle patience you can develop and improve your shoulder injury. Then when the quality of your movement in and out of postures improves through slow movement, you will find you can understand yourself better and will go faster than ever before if you want to. |
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| i really agree with jim on this and recommend finding some high quality rehabilitation work for the RC. it's a delicate space, but there is some great PT available for it.
so rest, then PT, then moving into the asana bit by bit. |
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New User
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| hey duane, i got the same injuries at the shoulders... i've recently started my treatment with a fisioterapist, i'm better by now but i still have a little ache ... how is going on to you?
i stopped my yoga practice like 3 weeks ago ...but my tendonitis started about 3 months ago
my doctor says i'll be back to my mat soon
i hope so
but i'm planning to change my "routine" for a time, like to avoid arm work out, and just focusing in standing and sitting poses... doing namaste mudra instead of raising arms...
please i will be very grateful with any kind of advice
i hope you are doing very well
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Member
Posts: 17
| I would say never do the hunch-back kind of alignment. Your shoulders should always be wide, with the latissimus and rhomboid muscles somewhat engaged, which makes the 'opening' of the chest easier. Also, not practicing every single day, but maybe every other day, or a shorter practice, might be a good idea — until the necessary healing of the shoulder has taken place.
hgh therapy
Edited by jannet 2012-02-10 12:50 AM
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Rotator cuff injury and continuing practice
