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Weight Lifting and Ashtanga
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Danielle
Posted 2010-06-22 9:16 AM (#123632)
Subject: Weight Lifting and Ashtanga


Member

Posts: 7

I've been practicing yoga a few days a week for a couple years. I'm starting an Ashtanga practice and I'm trying to figure out if I need to cut back lifting weights, stop altogether, or keep lifting as I do now. I also run and can't really fit in 6 days of 90 minutes a day yoga plus running and weights. I have asked other people and get conflicting information about this.
Does anyone on here just do yoga for strength training and have done it for several years? I'm hearing that initially I can get strong from Ashtanga but due to lack of progressive overload I will get used to my body weight and no longer get the results after a year or two. Is this true?
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Iraputra
Posted 2010-06-22 11:58 AM (#123634 - in reply to #123632)
Subject: RE: Weight Lifting and Ashtanga


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Location: Uppsala, Sweden

Hi Danielle, I'd say there is hardly any right or wrong in choosing to combine yoga asana training with other kinds of physical exercise regimens. It's is entirely a question of preferences, and what shape you are in, as well as what your objectives are.

Do you want (or need) to get stronger, and if so why? Do you want to use asana practice to gain more flexibility as part of physical training where strength and endurance (or looks, body ideals) is of more importance than the more yogic perspectives of health as a means for mental and spiritual transformation? In the end, it's your practice and your choices.

Generally though, I think most women would benefit from more strength training, and some guys would benefit from more flexibility, but ultimately there is no right or wrong, only preferences, ideals and choices. To be able to do all or as much as possible of the Ashtanga sequences of asanas, you need both strength and flexibility, and a lot of determination. So, if that is one of your objectives, then for sure, weight lifting can be something that either facilitates or impedes your asana practice, depending on how your strength training (other than Ashtanga) is composed, as very big bulky muscles can be a bit of an obstacle rather than of assistance in some asanas. And weight lifting does not tend to increase flexibility.

Some practitioners do actually get into trouble because of a lack in strength, and trying too hard. If you have a look at "Lino Miele - Navasana", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KAU3xNVTAE , an asana in the middle of the Primary Series, done with full vinyasa, it is easy to imagine that this takes a lot of strength, and my guess would be that he brought about this level of demanding practice by doing a lot of asana practice without other weight lifting than his own body weight. It should also be pointed out that some guys (and probably gals as well) who try too much to accomplish this kind of practice (e.g. going into handstand as part of vinyasa/asana) are at risk of getting into shoulder problems, the same as some acrobats and dancers also are.

I'm hearing that initially I can get strong from Ashtanga but due to lack of progressive overload I will get used to my body weight and no longer get the results after a year or two. Is this true?


If your goal is to get stronger than that (being able to handle your own body weight in any asana), then I would say that you probably really need weight lifting. If your objective is to be able to advance as quickly as possibly in the Ashtanga sequences, then you might enhance your practice with some kind of strength training, but whether it is quite necessary for your yoga practice — probably not at all.

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Danielle
Posted 2010-06-22 12:46 PM (#123637 - in reply to #123632)
Subject: Re: Weight Lifting and Ashtanga


Member

Posts: 7

Thanks for your advice.
"If your goal is to get stronger than that (being able to handle your own body weight in any asana), then I would say that you probably really need weight lifting"
I've been told that if I continue to lift weights it could keep me from progressing in Ashtanga. I'm just trying to figure out how I'm going to do this. I really hate to lose muscle and strength I've worked hard for in the gym. But I don't want to limit my progress in Ashtanga.
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Posted 2010-06-22 1:33 PM (#123638 - in reply to #123637)
Subject: Re: Weight Lifting and Ashtanga


Danielle - 2010-06-22 9:46 AM

I've been told that if I continue to lift weights it could keep me from progressing in Ashtanga. I'm just trying to figure out how I'm going to do this. I really hate to lose muscle and strength I've worked hard for in the gym. But I don't want to limit my progress in Ashtanga.


What are you progressing towards? If you are progressing towards achieving a goal, what exactly is that goal? (I assume that you do not want to become a professional astanga series performer.) Resistance training builds strength, but shortens your muscles leading to less range of motion. Stretching your muscles increases range of motion, but can lead to instability of your joints if done in excess. I don't see why you cannot find a happy balance between resistance training, astanga yoga and cardio exercise that works for your unique body/mind. They are all beneficial in different ways. Also, just as all weight lifting exercises are not good for everyone, all yoga postures are not good for everyone either. The astanga series are great, but they put an awful lot of stress on the knees, so be very careful.

Remember that whatever you choose, the point of physical training of any kind is health and happiness, not the pursuit of injury and unhappiness.

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yogabear
Posted 2010-06-22 6:14 PM (#123643 - in reply to #123632)
Subject: Re: Weight Lifting and Ashtanga


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For some of us it's too late to go back, meaning, we have been lifting weights for so long that A) our bodies are not as accommodating as other physiques' are, and B) if we discontinue the weights our muscles atrophy (not literally of course) and we get stretch marks, loose flesh, and high amounts of fat building up.

My remedy is to do endurance training, whereby maintaining the basic size, shape and weight, that I have in my chest shoulders and back.

This is a good article that explains the difference between the two:
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/strengthening/a/aa123098a.htm

But simpler put, either the muscle will stay the same size (more or less) but gain endurance, by using low weights, high reps; or you are build strength (i.e., "bulk" ) by overworking the muscle with high weight low reps. This is what I am doing for my arms and legs only. (Ok, so part of this is vain, but dammit I like my Madonna arms!)

Oh, and I also do cardio on the treadmill 30 mins. x 3 a week.

So, reaffirming what everyone says, pick an exercise routine that works for you, know your goals, and choose a plan accordingly.


Edited by yogabear 2010-06-22 6:16 PM
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Danielle
Posted 2010-06-23 9:04 AM (#123648 - in reply to #123643)
Subject: Re: Weight Lifting and Ashtanga


Member

Posts: 7

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will keep my weight lifting for now, at least. I guess you can never have too much strength. I may cut back on the running, though. I'll just see how it progresses.
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Iraputra
Posted 2010-06-23 1:43 PM (#123651 - in reply to #123648)
Subject: Re: Weight Lifting and Ashtanga


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Posts: 113
100
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

In the below links you will find different perspectives and stories from those who have done a lot of both weight lifting and yoga, as well as a couple of older yoga message board threads on pretty much the same topic. I guess you may have already looked at some of these links?

Yoga vs Weightlifting (article by Kathleen Kastner)
http://www.mayayoga.com/yoga-vs-weightlifting/

Can Yoga Replace Strength Training? (by Kelly Turner)
http://life.gaiam.com/gaiam/p/Can-Yoga-Replace-Strength-Training.html

Yoga vs Running: Which Really Is Better for You?
http://www.divinecaroline.com/22176/68932-yoga-vs-running-which-really

Q & A — Balancing Yoga with Weight Training
http://www.allspiritfitness.com/library/QandA/qa_YogaMuscles.shtml

Strength vs. Flexibility – Who Wins? (by Lucas Rockwood)
http://www.yogabodynaturals.com/strength-vs-flexibility

“yoga vs weight training” [similar thread from Sep/Nov 2004]
http://www.yoga.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=17650

“Fitting in Strength Training and Cardio” [... 2007/2008 @ Yuku]
http://yoga84291.yuku.com/reply/45101/t/Re-Fitting-in-Strength-Training-and-Cardio.html

It seems to me that strength training (other than Ashtanga asanas) is helpful for some, and not at all helpful for others, when it comes to what is best for their yoga practice; or for their combined physical exercise routines and health aspirations etc. And thus you are left to your own wits and trials to find out what works for you. So, you are right about the “conflicting information”, and you will probably just have to try it out and “see how it progresses”.

KungFu and Yoga looks like another possible combination — http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrYlNNy929Y
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Danielle
Posted 2010-06-26 6:51 PM (#123700 - in reply to #123632)
Subject: Re: Weight Lifting and Ashtanga


Member

Posts: 7

Believe it or not, I've read all of those articles. That is why my initial post contained the question was, "Does anyone on here just do yoga for strength training and have done it for several years?" I'm looking for people.....I know they are out there....who have done yoga and ONLY yoga for their strength training for at least two years. I am already aware of all of the opinions out there. I just want to talk to someone who does only yoga and no weights.
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Danielle
Posted 2010-06-26 6:58 PM (#123701 - in reply to #123700)
Subject: Re: Weight Lifting and Ashtanga


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Posts: 7

http://www.yoga.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=16970&posts=1

Oh look what I found!!! This is what I was looking for : )
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preserve
Posted 2011-03-15 9:57 PM (#207412 - in reply to #123637)
Subject: Re: Weight Lifting and Ashtanga


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Posts: 1

It is pretty hard to imagine many people at the gym that would lose muscle doing ashtanga.

The only muscular exercise I supplement yoga with is pull-ups.
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vibes
Posted 2011-04-06 5:03 AM (#208050 - in reply to #123632)
Subject: Re: Weight Lifting and Ashtanga


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Posts: 574
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When you say "ashtanga yoga to become stronger", do you mean strengthen individual muscles or most muscles, so they have more muscle fibres or mean strengthen the whole body through improving coordination of your muscles. They are different goals. But both can be done.
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Bay Guy
Posted 2011-04-08 8:38 PM (#208086 - in reply to #123700)
Subject: Re: Weight Lifting and Ashtanga



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Danielle - 2010-06-26 6:51 PM

Believe it or not, I've read all of those articles. That is why my initial post contained the question was, "Does anyone on here just do yoga for strength training and have done it for several years?" I'm looking for people.....I know they are out there....who have done yoga and ONLY yoga for their strength training for at least two years. I am already aware of all of the opinions out there. I just want to talk to someone who does only yoga and no weights.


Hi Danielle,

Although by now you may be long gone - this being a rather old thread - I do yoga and only yoga "for strength". Ashtanga in particular is great for upper back, triceps, chest, and lower back, and also for internal "core" strength and somewhat for abs (power yoga tends to include crunches etc and I cross-train power yoga and Ashtanga, mainly because I need to have the variety that comes with the power yoga), it's also good for glutes; yoga is less good for lower body strength and famously not so good for biceps. But I'm not a body builder and it's not my goal to be one.

I can lift my full body weight with my arms & core through many different angles orientations, and as far as I am concerned I am strong in that way. I don't have the goal of looking like those pneumatic weight lifters, and I don't. What am I actually doing?-- The first three series of Ashtanga with all the handstanding variations in each series is the short answer. I also do certain Iyengar series from LOY (which tend to be more flexibility then strength) and hot vinyasa yoga on the side.

I'd add that if you are not doing vinyasa almost daily and if you habitually skip the "hard parts" (knees on the floor, stepping rather than lifting or jumping) you will not make much progress on building strength. And I'll add -- if you are going to do this, learn the anatomy of the wrist and shoulder carefully so that you don't fall into patterns that will leave you sore and injured.

Cheers,
.... bg

Edited by Bay Guy 2011-04-08 8:41 PM
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Danielle
Posted 2011-04-09 10:14 PM (#208090 - in reply to #208086)
Subject: Re: Weight Lifting and Ashtanga


Member

Posts: 7

No, I'm still here. Thanks for the information. I'm still doing ashtanga about every other day. I have a lot of time constraints and working it in is my biggest challenge right now. I'm still doing some weight lifting....though I will say I have noticed I'm gaining strength and muscle despite never lifting anything more than 12-15 lb dumbbells. I can do chaturanga correctly now. I don't drop when I'm 4 inches from the floor. I lower all the way down : )
The problem I'm facing now is that I have a recurring tibial injury that is aggravated by running. I've had other yoga people suggest I use ashtanga for my cardio and keep up the strength training. I still don't have the answers and I'm not sure I'm going to ever have them.
Thanks for chiming in, though.
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Danielle
Posted 2011-04-09 10:26 PM (#208091 - in reply to #208090)
Subject: Re: Weight Lifting and Ashtanga


Member

Posts: 7

One more thing I wanted to add.....strength is not an issue, really. I've always done some kind of body weight work and I was in gymnastics as a kid so I have a lot of natural strength. However, my shoulders are really tight and my biceps get in the way when I'm doing yoga. I thought I'd lost flexibility as I left my twenties but I now see that my quads and other muscles are so thick that they inhibit my flexibility. Hmmmm.....something to think about. I'm 39 and as I get older my concern is being lean but also having enough muscle mass to keep me from losing my independence seeing that I come from a family of long-living people. When I'm 90 I still want to have the strength to be on my own and enjoying life.
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Bay Guy
Posted 2011-04-12 10:14 PM (#208109 - in reply to #208091)
Subject: Re: Weight Lifting and Ashtanga



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You should keep in mind that 39 is young. I didn't even start practicing yoga until I was past 40 - all of this came to me after that.

Om nama Sivaya.

... bg
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jeremyjenks
Posted 2011-04-17 10:43 PM (#208168 - in reply to #208109)
Subject: Re: Weight Lifting and Ashtanga


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Posts: 6

Bay Guy - 2011-04-12 10:14 PM


You should keep in mind that 39 is young. I didn't even start practicing yoga until I was past 40 - all of this came to me after that.

Om nama Sivaya.

... bg


Whoa! you are doing the first three series of Ashtanga including the handstands and you started after 40? How did you accomplish that? I realize that doing more advanced poses such as handstands is not the ultimate goal of our practice, but I always love a boost of inspiration.


Edited by jeremyjenks 2011-04-17 10:54 PM
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jannet
Posted 2012-01-25 12:33 AM (#209904 - in reply to #123632)
Subject: Re: Weight Lifting and Ashtanga


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Posts: 17

Well if you are going to do this, learn the anatomy of the wrist and shoulder carefully so that you don't fall into patterns that will leave you sore and injured.
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